Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
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Radiology
Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
Chat about radiology with radiologists and those who want to get into the speciality
Some years ago, the front cover of the BMJ sported a doctor with a portable ultrasound machine slung round her neck in place of the traditional stethoscope. How I wish I could use one of these things!
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Forums » Open clinical » Radiology » Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
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Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
posted at 4/3/2011 11:26 AM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 82
First: 21/7/2010 Last: 9/8/2012 |
Some years ago, the front cover of the BMJ sported a doctor with a portable ultrasound machine slung round her neck in place of the traditional stethoscope. How I wish I could use one of these things! Suspected biliary colic, threatened miscarriage, possible breast abscess, suspected pneumothorax – I might see any or all of these things during my 7-hour out-of-hours primary care shift tomorrow, and there isn’t a single ultrasonographer in the local hospital at weekends. This brief account of point-of-care ultrasonography says that the latest portable mini-machines are good for all of these things (pneumothorax included) and perhaps I’ll look into setting up a local trial. |
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Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
posted at 4/3/2011 11:57 AM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 33
First: 6/10/2010 Last: 14/8/2012 |
In the BMJ article on smartphones - which I read yesterday - there is a company that’s is developing an app that will turn a Windows 7 smartphone into a Portable ultrasonography - you down load the app and plug in the scanner head into the phones USB port - cost 8000USD and coming soon. |
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Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
posted at 4/3/2011 4:42 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2060
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 24/5/2013 |
Some time ago, NICE in their wisdom, decided that U/sound was the only way to insert neck lines, and so every theatre and ICU had to get one. I shouldn't be scathing about NICE, because U/s is an excellent way to identify a vessel, and wht's more to tell if it's under pressure or not. But these machines are now being used to assist local anaesthetic nerve blocks, for surgery and post-op. pain relief, so anaesthetists are accumulating a lot of experience in their use. There is evidence too, that blocks are more successful when U/s is used, even versus a stimulator. So scathe on standby there too. My point is that even the latest, multi-head, multi-scanning U/s machines @ £25K are difficult to use. As usual, you need training and experience to use a technique or procedure. It is not straightforward to identify the structures that you can see on the screen. Thus the statement that, "even an untrained person can scan some one" is not true, and I fear that even an $8K device will not substitute for training and experience, even if it can provide the quality of a laptop sized machine. As I'm sure a radiologist (aka clinical imaging specialist) as well as an anaesthetist will tell you, can't just pick up one and use it successfully. The days of Star Trek's Bones and his medical tricorder are not with us yet! See: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/22/ge-vscan-portable-ultrasound-earns-the-leonard-mccoy-seal-of-app/ John |
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Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
posted at 4/3/2011 6:22 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 5
First: 4/3/2011 Last: 2/6/2011 |
In Response to Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?: As a final year med student I have seen portable ultrasound units used in a variety of situations with a general recognition of their usefulness along the lines of ......"back in the day, this was a lot harder before this little baby came along". Similarly articles from a variety of sources (not only the BMJ, e.g. http://boards.medscape.com/forums?128@@.2a01304b!comment=1) have made impassioned pleas for ultrasound to be used more frequently by the 'joe soap' doctor. Based on my exposure thus far, I have promised myself that this technique needs as much time and effort in mastering as for example, I might put into learning to interpret ECGs, and set myself a personal goal to get this experience before I graduate. The ultimate aim will be to present a proposal to my university curriculum board. I agree that the technique may be well be harder than it looks but like any tool, early hands on experience is more likely to move people into their comfort zone and if medical school is not the place to allow students have a go and explore the potential usage then where is? So Portable ultrasonography - Count me in!! |
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Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
posted at 6/3/2011 11:07 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1181
First: 19/4/2010 Last: 23/5/2013 |
I have a portable ultrasound machine in my office. I use it almost daily; and I've trained up all the registrars in its use. Lymph node biopsies, chest drain insertion, line insertion, abscess assessment/drainage, echo, ascites drainage, whatever we can do with it. A great device; everyone should be trained up.
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Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
posted at 7/3/2011 8:11 AM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1597
First: 24/12/2008 Last: 25/5/2013 |
This is good point. Thanks Richard for bringing up here. I was fascinated about the reports from high altitude doctors who have reported the role of ultrasound in detection of high altitude pulmonary edema and ealry leakage. So much so that they are saying we can see 'comets' in the lung if there be pulmonary edema. Having said that, if this is to take the size and similarity to Steth: both would have fantastic role here. That will be good diagonistic as well as research tool! |
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Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
posted at 12/3/2011 12:22 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 3
First: 30/7/2009 Last: 12/3/2011 |
In Response to Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?: This is good point. Thanks Richard for bringing up here. I was fascinated about the reports from high altitude doctors who have reported the role of ultrasound in detection of high altitude pulmonary edema and ealry leakage. So much so that they are saying we can see 'comets' in the lung if there be pulmonary edema. Having said that, if this is to take the size and similarity to Steth: both would have fantastic role here. That will be good diagonistic as well as research tool! Posted by Matiram Pun I carried a portable ultrasound for years in my car doing domiciliary visits in the 1980's. I had help with learning how to use it and I found it invaluable. However I always got confirmation of my findings from an ultrasonographer using a large machine. With better training I think it could be a 'normal' part of examination. |
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Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?
posted at 23/9/2011 8:06 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 177
First: 23/12/2010 Last: 26/4/2013 |
In Response to Re: Portable ultrasonography - would you do it if you could?: Some time ago, NICE in their wisdom, decided that U/sound was the only way to insert neck lines, and so every theatre and ICU had to get one. I shouldn't be scathing about NICE, because U/s is an excellent way to identify a vessel, and wht's more to tell if it's under pressure or not. But these machines are now being used to assist local anaesthetic nerve blocks, for surgery and post-op. pain relief, so anaesthetists are accumulating a lot of experience in their use. There is evidence too, that blocks are more successful when U/s is used, even versus a stimulator. So scathe on standby there too. My point is that even the latest, multi-head, multi-scanning U/s machines @ £25K are difficult to use. As usual, you need training and experience to use a technique or procedure. It is not straightforward to identify the structures that you can see on the screen. Thus the statement that, " even an untrained person can scan some one" is not true, and I fear that even an $8K device will not substitute for training and experience, even if it can provide the quality of a laptop sized machine. As I'm sure a radiologist (aka clinical imaging specialist) as well as an anaesthetist will tell you, can't just pick up one and use it successfully. The days of Star Trek's Bones and his medical tricorder are not with us yet! See: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/22/ge-vscan-portable-ultrasound-earns-the-leonard-mccoy-seal-of-app/ John Posted by John D Agree with you to some extent- as a radiologist and sonologist with 24 years experience in the field of sonography, I know the difficulties in picking up odd structures the appendix being a case in point. Also, things like peneumothorax can be tricky (pleural effusion is easier). But just try catching a deeper lung mass.....extremely difficult... yes the sensors of the type used in Star Trek (i a,m a Trekkie)..to use as amagic wand are too far away to materialize just yet.. Joe. |
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