Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
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Psychiatry
Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
Talk about psychiatry with the community
According to a new psychiatric evaluation mass killer Anders Breivik is sane, overturning a previous evaluation which labelled him criminally insane. His actions were inhumane and that of someone's re
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Cat:OpenClinicalForum:fe67deac-c9c4-4b60-b2bc-a8031c68b5c6Discussion:abb4415a-0fd6-463c-bb85-3f9a4b6c396a
Forums » Open clinical » Psychiatry » Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
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Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
posted at 18/4/2012 10:15 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2034
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 17/5/2013 |
I think that his actions and words in court show that he is neither mad nor bad, but psychopathic. kirked may explain if the UK or Nowegian court can accept that diagnosis. If The Law will insist on sane/insane, that would explain the difficulty for his previous psychiatric teams, who found him both at different times. Interesting (double page!) report in today's Guardian, including an analysis of his claims about an "Islamic takeover". See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/17/breivik-claims-basis John |
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Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
posted at 19/4/2012 6:40 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2034
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 17/5/2013 |
Apparently you (and I!) are not alone, Duane. His judges are two 'professional' legal eagles, and three lay 'judges'. I know not how the latter are appointed, but already one has been sacked for tweeting that Breivik should be executed. JOhn PS This is how the Nowegeian system works: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17740229 |
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Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
posted at 20/4/2012 5:23 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1280
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 14/5/2013 |
Sorry for getting back to this so late John, I agree, Question, Where is the sanity in todays world? Mayeb that would be a good post for a discussion? DuaneF In Response to Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?: Apparently you (and I!) are not alone, Duane. His judges are two 'professional' legal eagles, and three lay 'judges'. I know not how the latter are appointed, but already one has been sacked for tweeting that Breivik should be executed. JOhn PS This is how the Nowegeian system works: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17740229 Posted by John D |
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Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
posted at 20/4/2012 9:15 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2034
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 17/5/2013 |
" Where is the sanity in todays world? " In Norway. The Norwegians have conducted themselves in the face of this tragedy in exemplary fashion. Calm, balanced - for instance it is clear that one of Breivik's reasons for doing this was to get himself a pulpit from which to preach his horrible views. The Norwegian Court's solution is to ban broadcast by radio or TV, but to allow reporting of his statements, thus denying him that opportunity but allowing justice and democracy to prevail. John |
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Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
posted at 20/4/2012 11:35 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 13
First: 20/4/2012 Last: 29/7/2012 |
It seems to me that both ways that this case can go leave him incarcerated. Surely, even if he is committed to psychiatric care, he will stay there for the rest of his life? Once there, if he is cured of the psychatric icondition that affects him, then he will accept criminal responsbility, and go to jail. If not, then he will remain in psychatric care until he dies. And if he is found sane, then he will be locked up until he dies. I don't see the issue. |
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Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
posted at 20/4/2012 1:04 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1257
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 17/5/2013 |
Once there, if he is cured of the psychatric condition that affects him, then he will accept criminal responsbility, and go to jail...I don't see the issue. This is exactly where the issue lies Founex1. I don't want to get bogged down with Breivik per se because, having seen him in action and read his testimony, it is clear to me that, whatever his ideology, he knew exactly what he was doing and why he wanted to do it and had full awarness of his actions and the consequences of those actions so he is criminally responsible and will go to jail forever. But there is a more general issue that if someone does something bad whilst mentally ill and is then cured of that illness how can they (1) then be found criminally responsible for what they did when they had little or no sense of responsibility; and (2) then not be released from care are having been "cured" like any other psychiatric patient? |
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Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
posted at 20/4/2012 1:50 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 13
First: 20/4/2012 Last: 29/7/2012 |
it is clear to me that, whatever his ideology, he knew exactly what he was doing and why he wanted to do it and had full awarness of his actions... I agree there as well. It seems that he did have full awareness, and in my opinion he is thoroughly sane. With regards to the general issue, it seems to me that if someone were to commit an act such as this whilst insane, and was then cured, part of that cure would be to accept culpability for their actions. In my opinion, when they committed those actions, they are still themselves, although in an altered state. If someone commits murder whilst in the altered state of mind brought on by drugs, then I think most people would agree that the responsability lies with them. What is the difference between that and the state of mind brought on by insanity? Neither should be a mitigating factor, and as a consequence, once the alternative state of mind is reversed, they should accept the punishment that comes with it |
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Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
posted at 20/4/2012 2:28 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1257
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 17/5/2013 |
I think the difference is that drugs and alcohol are "voluntary" therefore they do not count as mitigating factors and nor should they. But if someone has an illness which they didn't choose to have and over which they have no real control I think that is different. The example I gave Duane in an earlier posting on this thread of hypercalcaemia-induced psychosis is a good example. Similarly we mitigate for people who are violent and aggressive following head injury or in a diabetic crisis, etc. It depends, I guess, on how you perceive mental illness. If one accepts a biological, neuro-transmitter model for mental illness then it becomes a pathophysiological medical condition and just as someone with heart failure cannot help being breathless, someone with a mental illness may not be able to help being violent or aggressive. |
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Re: Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
posted at 20/4/2012 3:06 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 13
First: 20/4/2012 Last: 29/7/2012 |
In your message to Duane, you say that there is no point in psychiatry if all we are going to do is lock people up if they commit a crime when in an altered state of mind. I disagree. If they are locked up or not, the psychiatrists should still try to cure them, or even better, should try to cure them before they commit these acts! My point of view is as follows: People who commit acts of violence whilst psychotic or mentally ill should be cured. But I think it is unfair on the loved ones and families of the people towards whom the violence was intended to not see these people punished. However, I think, for example, that if someone spends 10 years in a psychiatric hospital, and is then pronounced 'cured', then that time can be taken off their sentence. |
Forums » Open clinical » Psychiatry » Is Anders Behring Breivik sane?
