Drink drivers who cannot blow, tolerate needles or wee!!
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Medicolegal
Drink drivers who cannot blow, tolerate needles or wee!!
Discuss and get advice on medicolegal issues
We all know that Drink Driving is a scourge of modern society. About 1000 people per day die or are seriously injured because of drivers who have consumed alcohol, We also know that the l
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Forums » Open clinical » Medicolegal » Drink drivers who cannot blow, tolerate needles or wee!!
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Drink drivers who cannot blow, tolerate needles or wee!!
posted at 30/11/2011 2:32 PM GMT
on bmj.com
Moved from the General clinical forum
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Posts: 383
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 21/5/2012 |
We all know that Drink Driving is a scourge of modern society. About 1000 people per day die or are seriously injured because of drivers who have consumed alcohol, We also know that the legal limit is : Breath 35mcg/100mls of breath Blood 80mg/100 mls breath Urine 107mg/mls Urine. However, a driver may be arrested brought to a Police station to give an evidential breath sample. but they can refuse to provide a sample perfectly legally if they have a medical reason. Amongst those reasons for not providing a breath sample are; Astma Facial Palsy Obesity Small stature Panic Attacks Hyperventilating sttscks Alcohol Intoxication. Furthermore they can refuse to provide a blood sample if they have needle phobia or poor venous access. They can also refuse to provide a sample of urine if: If they are Intoxicated with Alcohol Taking drugs causing urinary retention Dehydration Catheter in situ Embarrassment at providing a sample in front of a policeman/women. Whilst I realise that the person can be prosecuted in other ways (e.g. failure to provide), the above seem to me (as a non medical expert) to be rather spurious (at best) reasons to allow an intoxicated driver to benefit from not providing a specimen. My question is this: As Doctors do you regard these as acceptable medical defences to simply blowing into a tube to give a blood level of alcohol? For the record these rules apply to England and Wales. |
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Re: Drink drivers who cannot blow, tolerate needles or wee!!
posted at 30/11/2011 4:23 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 851
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 20/5/2012 |
What a wonderful, Alice-in-Wonderland, circular, and if I may say so, legal, argument! "I cannot provide you, Officer, with a sample of my breath or urine to determine if I am intoxicated with alcohol, because I am intoxicated with alcohol. Hic!" I suppose that 'falling-down-drunk' may excuse them from either task, but if that's the case can they get away with it? Is not the word of a PO that the suspect could not stand upright sufficient? But otherwise, is it wise to make this list public? Your average lawyer may be well aware of them as a defence against refusing to provide, but can the idiot plead them later, after he has refused? Probably not, when he cant recall his own address at the time, let alone, "Astma, Facial Palsy, Obesity, Small stature, Panic Attacks etc" John PS "Hyperventilating sttscks" Had few yerself, Kirked? 
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Re: Drink drivers who cannot blow, tolerate needles or wee!!
posted at 30/11/2011 4:49 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 383
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 21/5/2012 |
John D cheers and down the hatch!!! In your expert medical and sober opinion why would obesity or indeed small stature prevent one from blowing into the machine? Apologies if I sound thick but it could be the quart of moonshine I just had? Also bear in mind that Doctors formulated these defences! |
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Re: Drink drivers who cannot blow, tolerate needles or wee!!
posted at 30/11/2011 9:39 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 851
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 20/5/2012 |
If I have suggested that kirked might have had a few, please note that JohnD is sober tonight. Are these exceptions dreamt up by 'Mr.Loophole' the learned and honourable lawyer, and friend of overpaid soccer players who can't find a Ferrari in a football field? Or are they in the Act, as laid down by our sober and sensible MPs? Case law or statute? When I've seen the Alcometer used on TV, the accused is required to blow through it at a rate and for a duration that an asthmatic might find difficult. Ditto someone with a facial palsy that prevented them forming a seal with their lips on the mouthpiece. So fair doose. Obesity? Only if they can't stand close enough to the alcometer to reach the mouth piece. Only in America, though we can't be be far behind. Small stature? No way! Unless they also have a fear of heights and can't stand on a chair. Panic attacks and hyperventilation. Pull the other one, it's got bells on. Intoxication? I refer my honourable friend etc.etec. There's a whole slew of drugs that can cause retention. Sorry, strike out 'can', insert 'might', especially when asked to provide a urine sample. See: http://www.fpnotebook.com/Urology/Pharm/UrnryRtntnDTMdctns.htm rather than ask me to list them. Dehydration. Absolutely! But recent research (half an hour ago, with a tinnie) has shown that liquid intake has a 99.999% probability of producing a diuresis. Excuse me for moment. Ah, that's better. What's next? A "catheter in situ". I have never written this before but ROFL (one up on LOL, Laugh Out Loud, you work it out) Embarassment. We all have to grow up sometime, and you never know you might be lucky. JOhn |
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Re: Drink drivers who cannot blow, tolerate needles or wee!!
posted at 1/12/2011 7:11 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 383
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 21/5/2012 |
Hi John D, They are not the product of 'Mr Loophole' although he has remarkable success, but in fairness it was because he recognised errors on the face of the recotd; As a rule even the most intoxicated person can blow into an evidential breath analyser. I cannot understand how a person of small stature can decline to give a breath specimen. |
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