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Will medicine be the new banking?
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Will medicine be the new banking?
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I read in the BMj this week that Circle healthcare (who took over the franchise of Hinchingbrooke NHS Healthcare Trust) are seeking more investment to stay a going concern. If the new health and socia
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Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 10/6/2012 6:31 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 897
First: 17/6/2011
Last: 17/6/2013
I read in the BMj this week that Circle healthcare (who took over the franchise of Hinchingbrooke NHS Healthcare Trust) are seeking more investment to stay a going concern. If the new health and social care bill creates many more franchises like this will medicine become the new banking - lots of risk taking to make profit with no thought to who will pick up the pieces? We can already see that the human costs of such an approach are exceptionally high - Spain and Greece need I say more?
sadian

Re: Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 10/6/2012 7:49 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1343
First: 13/4/2010
Last: 19/6/2013
You are correct sadin - you cannot run healthcare along the lines of a capiltalist-based commodity market - it is doomed to failure.It's an old statistic but still worth quoting - the USA Government spemds more per head of population on healthcare than the UK Government yet nearly half of the USA's population has access to inadequate healthcare whereas in the UK every single person, no matter how remote they are, has free-at-the-point-of-delivery access to a top-notch healthcare system.
It's all very well saying we should adopt the American model and make every individual responsible for themselves but disease is seldom something over which you have much control so why should you be punished for circumstances that are not of your own making?
Good, effective universal healthcare must be paid for out of central taxation (with, perhaps, small individual top ups for those who can afford it - although an effctive tax system would obviate the need for that) - there is no better proven way of doing it.
I think that the UK Government's proposals for England will be a disaster for many, many people and I heave a sigh of releief every day, both professionally and personally, that I will never have to live or work under them.

Re: Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 10/6/2012 10:49 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 3009
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 20/6/2013
I do not think is has to be all or nothing. I think a mix of public health and private can work well. The US model is the extreme but in general their system seems always full of paradoxes. 

The system adopted has to be congruent with the social milieu in which it arises. What may work in one society may not work in another. There are many admirable features of the NHS and many not so good.  I know that once nearly every Australian specialist in training went to London or Edinburgh but not now. Why? 

This may seem off topic but perhaps it is just to say that the much of the rest of the world have moved on. 

Health must have some economic rationale with a budget and bottom line. We can no longer pretend we are somehow exempt from the rest of society.

In my state the public hospital under a former Labor government has caused a debacle with a stuff up in the payroll system. It will cost a staggering $ 1.2 billion Australian to fix it ($1 Aus = or > $1US). If this happened in the private sector there would blood on the floor. In the public sector there are red faces, a red line and the good old tax payer foots the bill so it becomes black again. This is not real accounting. This is not the real world. This is socialised medicine at its most incompetent. We have a new government and a new broom. That is the only difference.  

Will medicine be the new banking? If only it would. 

Re: Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 10/6/2012 11:35 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1343
First: 13/4/2010
Last: 19/6/2013
I don't disagree that public sector systems should be subjected to the same degree of scrutiny (and same degree of culpability when someone f's up) as the private sector but, as the recent banking crisis demonstrates, it may well be the case that things are actually much worse in the private sector in that respect!
But as soon as you introduce a significant element of pay at the point of use or "pay more, get more" insurance policies lots of people lose out for no better reason than they can't afford to pay.
Of course you could argue that applies to a lot of things which directly impact on health (e.g. education, housing, etc.) but at least we can control the healthcare by ensuring that the State funds a top-notch service which meets all essential healthcare needs.
So I am not talking about cosmetic surgery here, or squabbling parents wanting a paternity test, or someone seeking travel advice for their luxury £10,000 holiday.
Scotland does have a poorer health record than many other nations but that is not due to a poorer healthcare system. Rather, as recent research from Glasgow University demonstrated, it is down to very specific genetic and socio-economic factors.
I would like to make it clear that the NHS in Scotland is, in many ways, very different to that in England. I can only say that the service in Scotland is generally excellent but, of course,it is run by humans so sometimes f ups will occur. But as I have said elsewhere - making a mistake is forgiveable, it's making the same mistake again that's the sin.

Re: Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 10/6/2012 11:23 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 3009
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 20/6/2013

Here is an example of public medicine I have recently experienced. I have worked for 20 years in the public system and fled to a more efficient domain; private practice where I see normal Australians. Under Medicare, all patients have a large moiety of their fees paid but they may pay a "gap" as one could not survive on the government fee only. The majority of the population as happy to do this. My funeral director does not have Deadicare nor my baker Breadicare although death and bread are essential services. 

My wife and I joined up with ATSICHS (Australian and Torres Strait Islander Health Service) which is funded by the Federal Government) in 2011 with great expectations. We are both specialists with altruistic leanings and a desire to do some good to the disadvantaged and marginalised in society. We went to a very disadvantaged outer city suburb as our specialties were in need.

After four months she resigned as she had only been sent two patients in four months in two separate "working class" [I dislike this term but it is here as short-hand] outer suburb ATSICHS clinics. She was a great loss as she had worked in aboriginal settlements in the gulf country as a young doctor. She is a kind and empathic doctor. It was all too much for her. She was very disappointed 

I continued on not having seen a patient in the first four months. They said there were some "administrative problems." I wrote my monthly reports and fed back to senior management.

After six months of my continual pleading they finally gave me a password so I could use Medical Director like all the GPs in the clinic so I could access results.

The administrative incompetence of the clinic was appalling. I run a tight ship in my own private clinic. I would sometimes have less than half the patients on my list turn up although a bus was especially sent to pick them up from their homes and the service was free. 

The appointment system did not work and there were referrals missing and things not filled out in time that I needed. I'd arrive to be met by staff only to be told that they were not expecting me. I was lucky if I saw three or four review patients in four hours. This would normally take me one hour in my private practice.

I used to put aside a whole day for the clinic. I am a busy specialist in private practice. I even took medical students with me as I teach them all with great expectations. Half the time we were idle. I felt embarrassed.

I kept writing reports to the administrators explaining the problems. I think they thought I was the problem but I knew that other specialists had left the clinic too.

After seven months, when at the clinic I was told by one of the GPs there that she could not get any patients in to see me as I was booked out. I later checked the computer booking list to find I had two patients booked in to see me. I finally resigned. I was appalled. How many times did I have to beat my head against a brick wall?

There was no camaraderie with the GPs there as I had hoped. They just sat in their rooms and largely ignored me. It was a mess. I walked away from this clinic having giving it seven months and at a significant financial loss. I had established liaison with the local hospital and was hoping something good could happen.

The AMA does not hear this side of the indigenous story and probably does not want to either as the hype of the successes is all they want to know. I had thought of doing more work of this nature even in the bush but am dissuaded from being involved any more. I was burdened by its incompetence and how the service of the specialist was not valued.  Indeed the support money paid to me was squandered. 

Public medicine does not always work. Public services often fail to be constrained by the need for efficiency, accountability and innovation. Imagine the Australian mining boom being run by government. Indeed the main problem was inefficient infrastructure eg trains and ports. This has been solved by selling trains and port facilities to private enterprise to make them efficient. QRAIL has become private and is listed on the stock market. 

I think that government run institutions tend to get bogged down. Imagine Apple being run by the NHS or for that matter the Department of Telecommunications and Primary Industry; the latter to administer apple orchards and then the Department of Excise, Gaming and Liquor Licences for the ancilliary cider production. We could go on.....

Re: Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 11/6/2012 9:18 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1343
First: 13/4/2010
Last: 19/6/2013
We could go on.....but let's not. We will just agree to disagree if that's okay with you as we are talking about two different systems and it's perhaps unfair to compare.

Re: Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 11/6/2012 9:36 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 335
First: 23/12/2011
Last: 19/6/2013
I HATE the prospect of the private sector getting their mits on the NHS. Because essentially you cant call the National Health Service a SERVICE if you are forced to shell out money for it. Service implies something given freely.
So will medicine become the new banking?
Eventually I think so and I hate the prospect of it.
But I have a feeling it may be my naievity kicking in again.

Re: Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 11/6/2012 11:42 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 3009
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 20/6/2013
Nothing is free. It is a socialist illusion to think so. Even in the biosphere all things are accountable. There is a bottom line to everything. The reason we are in an impending ecological catastrophe is lack of including the ecological bottom line on the account.

Our federal government encourages its people to take out private health insurance and they are a Labor government. Surely in a society (yours) where there are so many wealthy people, they should be able to contribute to their own health insurance. It is the underprivileged we need to support with universal health coverage, not those at Royal Ascot. 


Re: Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 12/6/2012 4:07 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 3009
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 20/6/2013
The NHS is the seventh largest employer in the world surpassed by McDonalds, some large Chinese state-run companies and Wallmart. The UK is not that big in population. Australia has no company or this size although there are some big companies such as BHP Billeton which mine minerals, not people or taxes.

The NHS will probably become like the Great Eastern; a great ship which had its time. 

P.S. We don't waste money on nuclear submarines; just beer and gambling. 

Re: Will medicine be the new banking?

posted at 12/6/2012 6:22 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 897
First: 17/6/2011
Last: 17/6/2013
You may well be right Odysseus that the NHS has had its day but what I hate about 'private' healthcare is the inequality (and yes we have that in the NHS as well but less so). Even today a child's chances in life are determined by who their parents are and the resources they have - doesn't this cast shame on a meritocratic society?
sadian 
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