How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
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How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
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When you have a patient who cannot speak your language, how do you communicate? We have had a discussion along these lines called Re: Should we charge patients for use of interpreters? , but how do yo
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How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
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Re: How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
posted at 13/1/2012 10:04 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2075
First: 10/3/2009 Last: 18/5/2012 |
Yes, I can in French and Greek up to a point. Latin yes, and I have lots of centurions with ballista shoulder and shield elbow. As for Ancient Greek no but I have few hoplites with asthma now as GPs treat this well. The terms we use to laymen are lay terms - not medical. Thus interrogation is in everyday speech. You need to bone up on how to say specific words eg cough etc. The process is not all or nothing. I find I enlarge my paradigms and even a few words in someone else's tongue puts them at ease and reassures them you are sympathetic to their social and cultural paradigm. The more you do it, the less self-conscious you become. There is an interesting (to me the most interesting) shift of power from the doctor to the patient as the doctor speaks falteringly at first, asking for the right word, sometimes the patient sniggering as you made a goose of yourself by some idiomatic or verbal gaff. The hole power level drops as you both grapple for common ground. Sometimes I have purposely chosen not to speak in French, Ancient Greek when I know the patient speaks good English as the power dynamic must in that case for various reasons be kept in my court. Each case is different and depends on the ego strengths and how painful that patient may be. Imagine travelling through Mongolia, ending up in an ER with snow blindness and some RMO with a Mongolian cap greets us in English but has faltering English thereafter. I'd be delighted.
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Re: How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
posted at 14/1/2012 1:56 AM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 37
First: 29/8/2010 Last: 18/5/2012 |
It takes a very long time to become fluent enough in a second or third language to function professionally in it. And not much point in learning to speak English, French, German, Italian and Hindi with a view to patient translation if the next patient through the door speaks Japanese. A basic knowledge of Latin is a huge help for learning Latin-based languages, which use more or less the same letters and grammar. Not much help however for Cyrillic-based lanuages, and those with totally different scripts or pictograms such as the Middle Eastern and Far Eastern languages. It is, after all, easy enough to absorb enough of a language to say "Hello", Please" and Thank-you" in it. It's another matter entirely to take a clinical history, absorb nuances and take informed consent in it. |
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Re: How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
posted at 14/1/2012 5:09 AM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2075
First: 10/3/2009 Last: 18/5/2012 |
I totally agree but before you get to this stage it can give one a lot of pleasure. I get journals in Greek and French too and find them excellent. I have Harrison's only in French and don't own an English version. |
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Re: How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
posted at 14/1/2012 4:51 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1325
First: 7/3/2009 Last: 21/5/2012 |
Multilingual capabilities is a well known problem here, with all the waves of emigration during the years. The most recent wave of Russian speaking newcomers during the Nineties required some adaptation. We are lucky to have many Russian speaking health professionals here, so that was one solution. The other was the help of translators. The third was a course in basic Russian and medical terminology in Russian , that was given at HMO's. The wave of newcomers from Ethiopia was however another issue. The issue was further comploicates since they speak two quite different dialects: Amhari and Tigrian. So, even the use of people who can translate was complicated. It came down to translating not before asking which dialect the patient speaks and hoping it is the same the translator speaks. Some of he medical examination was like panthomime and showing by example(e.g. deep breath through mounth, bend, etc...) My knowledge of Hungarian was exploited in full for a wave of Hungarian newcomers. Russian is also no problem for me. And I have English and Hebrew. Now, Arabic is my weak spot, although I understand some and can speak a bit and ask about some medical history, still it is tougher with Arabic speaking patients. For Spanish we created a questionnaire with systematic medical history questions so the patient can tick a YES or NO and from that we can continue with a translator. Same for French. |
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Re: How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
posted at 14/1/2012 7:43 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1325
First: 7/3/2009 Last: 21/5/2012 |
Well, the one language idea was tried with Esperanto, although it didn't catch. English is at the moment the international communication language, although many don't agree about its status. Still, most medical literature is in English, so it's an existing fact that we doctors communicate with each other in English, as I'm doing at the moment.. However, it also remains a fact thatgeneral public is far from being fluent in English and many many on the globe don't speak it.
Electronic translators can be of assistance, but it is a very complicated issue. Each language has its own specifics, and trying to translate it really requires human intelligence and extensive knowledge of both languages: the spoken and the translated into. It is further complicated by the fact that as I mentioned earlier there are different dialects, pronounciations, speed of words, eligibility, comprehending one person doesn't mean success with another.We humans can preocess the differences, complete information by association,previous knowledge,understand by hearing sometimes a fraction of the word or understand the general meaning by the sentence. These are heavy duties for a computer, even advanced ones. |
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Re: How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
posted at 14/1/2012 10:07 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 851
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 20/5/2012 |
I am a mere monoglot at the feet of Odysseus and Yoram. I have been scolded for it in Dutch, frustrated by Nords who, in the face of my attempts to speak Swedish, "Do like to practise their colloquial English!" and told by Poles that despite my very best endeavours my French is worse than their English. But Odysseus' post about sharing a language changing the doctor/patient relationship reminds me of a story from WW2. The Hellenophile Englishman Patrick Leigh Fermor was recruited into the Special Operations Executive, and parachuted into Crete to lead resistance to the Nazis. One exploit was to kidnap the German Commander of Crete, General Heinrich Kreipe. Hiding out in the Cretan mountains, the General looked out from a high place and quoted Horace, ""Vides ut alta stet nive candidum Soracte" . Fermor had no difficulty continuing the Latin ode and the relationship with his prisoner was thereafter quite different. If you don't know him, Odysseus, you will like Fermor. Try "Mani". John |
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Re: How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
posted at 15/1/2012 2:46 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 383
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 21/5/2012 |
When we have court cases involving people from other parts of the world that do not speak the english tongue we must employ interpreters/translators. They have a delighful job. The translator themselves is sworn in and promises to tell the truth as spoken by the defendant/s and witnesses. He is then obliged to literally state the defendants own words (verbatim - wartz and all) without embellishment or leaving out curses etc etc. Some of these translators are simply superb and it can be entertaining not to say humerous to hear them robustly stating the defendents words to a Barrister. At the end of it all the Judges agree that the translator must have his fee honoured. The fee agreements I have seen are usually set at around £300-400 per hour. What a great job. Court One in the morning and Court Two in the afternoon. I could happily live on that, buy a campervan and travel around the courthouse towns (a bit like judges did but a little more common and entertain myself at beaches and theatres at provincial towns). Oh well, I don't speak Urdhu, hindi, romanian or Serbocroat so its back to asking the questions of Doctors!. |
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Re: How do you translate patients who don't speak your language?
posted at 15/1/2012 7:18 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2
First: 15/1/2012 Last: 15/1/2012 |
I too have a lot of patients who speak diffierent langueges.Miming is very useful. I use google translate a lot but then have to guess the answers to my questions. Before google translate I had a medical phrase compiled with the help of my patients so I now do know quite a few phrases in some languages. My patients have taugh tme many languages. |
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