Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
False
General clinical
Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
Discuss any specialty in this open forum for all healthcare professionals
With the job market for consultants shinking across most specialties, there is an increasing pressure to elevate our CVs above others' with postgraduate degrees and other qualifications. Some speciali
0
Cat:OpenClinicalForum:GeneralClinical
Cat:OpenClinicalForum:GeneralClinicalDiscussion:82417d31-5b06-48a5-88a1-d18ecd5c7a72
Forums » Open clinical » General clinical » Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
Forums
»
Open clinical
»
General clinical
»
Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
|
Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
posted at 16/10/2012 11:35 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 12
First: 17/11/2011 Last: 18/10/2012 |
With the job market for consultants shinking across most specialties, there is an increasing pressure to elevate our CVs above others' with postgraduate degrees and other qualifications. Some specialities are even considering making the latter compulsory prior to CCT. I've no objections to further study that may help one to become a better consultant. But after being literally bled dry of money throughout my training to cover courses, conferences, exams, and so on, I am looking at the possibility of not being able to afford the masters I've always dreamt of doing for a long long time. God forbid, I should have made the decision to become a homeowner to put a roof over my family's head instead of doing a higher degree at the moment. Meanwhile, less empoverished colleagues of mine are jumping on ahead and piling on the qualifications. I fear this will heavily impact on my job prospects for the future. Some deaneries are funding higher studies in some specialties, while some are not. Is it time to provide across the board opportunities for funding and cut out this heavy inequality?
|
|
Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
posted at 18/10/2012 1:04 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 321
First: 12/11/2010 Last: 8/5/2013 |
Getting a higher degree is not essential for your job. Therefore, there is little in it for the employer. So, if you want a higher degree you have to regard it as an investment that you make in yourself, that may make you more attractive to an employer so you can get the job ahead of other candidates. Lack of funding is also not a new issue: When I did my MD (1993), I had to fund everything my self - but that was a sensible investment because in my specialty at the time there were only about 6 jobs advertised per year, and there were at least 25 people qualified for each job. One person I knew had had 25 interviews because he did not have that extra little bit on paper, which meant he kept not quite reaching the appointment threshold. The very first question in my consultant interview (from the local teaching hospital professor whose local candidate had written up half of his MD thesis, and was due to be interviewed next) went: "I see that according to your CV you are writing up your MD thesis. I presume this is like most MD theses, and will never be finished". I replied "It is completed, bound and due to be delivered to be marked tomorrow". The look on the prof's face was as if he had just had a hot poker inserted per rectum. I got the job. On balance a good investment... |
|
|
Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
posted at 18/10/2012 1:51 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 12
First: 17/11/2011 Last: 18/10/2012 |
That's fair TimReynolds. But as you mention in your post, the candidate without an MD was at a complete disadvantage, hence supporting the fact that higher qualifications make a significant difference to our job prospects. And now more than ever with the shrinking job market. If employers are swayed by higher quals to such an extent, they should clearly list them as a tick box to employment - that could then support the push for funding aid for such qualifications as lack of funds should not deny competent doctors the opportunity. If employers claim that they are not and if they insist that they look at the candidate's abilities regardless of higher post-grad quals, then recruitment should reflect this clearly.
|
|
|
Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
posted at 18/10/2012 2:40 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 2
First: 18/10/2012 Last: 2/5/2013 |
Why does someone looking for a clinical post have to spend years doing research (I am not going into the impact of most of this research)? Lots of money spent on tuition. Spent on things the individual may not find of interest. Time lost from employment at the appropriate grade and salary. What about specialty training shortlisting involving a high amount of marks for things like intercalated degrees. What is so special about a first class intercalated degree that in certain specialties one gets more points in it than an MD or as much as a PhD?
|
|
|
Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
posted at 18/10/2012 3:26 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 321
First: 12/11/2010 Last: 8/5/2013 |
In Response to Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?: That's fair TimReynolds. But as you mention in your post, the candidate without an MD was at a complete disadvantage, hence supporting the fact that higher qualifications make a significant difference to our job prospects. And now more than ever with the shrinking job market. If employers are swayed by higher quals to such an extent, they should clearly list them as a tick box to employment - that could then support the push for funding aid for such qualifications as lack of funds should not deny competent doctors the opportunity. If employers claim that they are not and if they insist that they look at the candidate's abilities regardless of higher post-grad quals, then recruitment should reflect this clearly. Posted by moumud You are making the msitake of believing that job selection is a fair process! Employers use the fact that you have done the degree at your own expense as an indicator that you are more likely to exert yourself on their behalf without demanding extra pay. Those who have not done the extra work are thought to be less likely to put in the extra effort that is wanted. They cannot put higher degrees down as an essential criterion because the rules do not allow that. From the applicant's point of view, higher degrees are simply one form of marketing strategy - in a buyer's market you have to have something to make you stand out. Another might be to save the life of Tont Bliar by some amazing feat of personal bravery; but on the whole doing a bit of extra study is usually easier and less dependent on being inthe right (or wrong) place at the right time. Indeed, some people might regard rescuing Bliar as a disqualification... |
|
|
Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
posted at 18/10/2012 4:08 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 12
First: 17/11/2011 Last: 18/10/2012 |
In Response to Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?: In Response to Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications? : You are making the msitake of believing that job selection is a fair process! Employers use the fact that you have done the degree at your own expense as an indicator that you are more likely to exert yourself on their behalf without demanding extra pay. Those who have not done the extra work are thought to be less likely to put in the extra effort that is wanted. They cannot put higher degrees down as an essential criterion because the rules do not allow that. From the applicant's point of view, higher degrees are simply one form of marketing strategy - in a buyer's market you have to have something to make you stand out. Another might be to save the life of Tont Bliar by some amazing feat of personal bravery; but on the whole doing a bit of extra study is usually easier and less dependent on being inthe right (or wrong) place at the right time. Indeed, some people might regard rescuing Bliar as a disqualification... Posted by TimReynolds Again, TimReynolds, fair point. Saving money for higher qual. will take me too long. The quickest way for me is to save Tont Bliar or some other such VIP. Off I go!
|
|
|
Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
posted at 18/10/2012 4:35 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 321
First: 12/11/2010 Last: 8/5/2013 |
You're in York... There is great chaos going on around you, caused by a hurricane and severe floods. There are huge masses of water all over you. You are a Sky News photographer and you are in the middle of this great disaster. The situation is nearly hopeless. You're trying to shoot very impressive photos. There are houses and people floating around you, disappearing into the water. Nature is showing all its destructive power and is ripping everything away with it. Suddenly you see a man in the water, he is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. You move closer. Somehow the man looks familiar. Suddenly you know who it is -- it's Tony Blair! At the same time you notice that the raging waters are about to take him away, forever. You have two options. You can save him or you can take the best photo of your life. So you can save the life of Tony Blair, or you can shoot a Pulitzer prize winning photo, a unique photo displaying the death of one of the world's most powerful men. And here's the question (please give an honest answer): Would you select color film, or rather go with the simplicity of classic black and white? |
|
|
Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
posted at 18/10/2012 5:02 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 1259
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 19/5/2013 |
Very droll Tim. But back to the issue at hand - the inequality begins way before the heady realms of MDs/PhDs. Disadvantaged kids go to poorer schools, get a poorer education and have much poorer chances of even getting into medical school in the first place. If we are targetting inequality in medical careers that's where we nedd to start instead of the current situation which throws thousand of potentially good doctors on the scrap heap at 17 because they happened to be born in the wrong part of town or to the wrong parent(s). |
|
|
Re: Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
posted at 18/10/2012 6:27 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 321
First: 12/11/2010 Last: 8/5/2013 |
There will always be inequality; and there will always be someone who will strive to create inequality to benefit themselves [by working hard, doing higher degrees etc.]. You can do all sorts of things to encourage 'the disadvantaged' to pull themselves out of the mire - but they still have to compete at the end. It may take more than 1 generation to achieve success for any individual group - but that success will push others back down into the primeval slime... |
Forums » Open clinical » General clinical » Should there be more available funding for higher postgraduate qualifications?
