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Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?
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Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?
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Offence of female genital mutilation & Male Genital Mutilation (1)A person is guilty of an offence if he excises, infibulates or otherwise mutilates the whole or any part of a girl’s labia
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Forums » Open clinical » General clinical » Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

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Forums  »  Open clinical  »  General clinical  »  Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 8/6/2012 2:12 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 8
First: 30/12/2011
Last: 9/6/2012
One of the main concerns that secularists have against religion is of being forced to do things against one's will.

Yet in order to prevent this what is being proposed here is to force an outcome onto religious parents against their will.

I do not think it ideologically consistent to enable choice (of the child) through coercion of the parents.

And so the best compromise option is what is done for all other cultural practices associated with potential harm e.g. Tattoos/ sunbeds which is to regulate, educate and inform.

The risk with a total ban is of causing alienation amongst affected communities. This may then led to backstreet circumcisions which are even harder to regulate and higher risk to the children you are seeking to protect.

Petition link - Banning is not enough - after a ban the laws has to be enforced. FGM still widespread in the UK, those perpetrating it feel impunity, undermining health, and the law. Please sign online petition to UK Gov already signed by 162 people, very

posted at 8/6/2012 2:33 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 5
First: 7/1/2010
Last: 8/6/2012
http://www.change.org/petitions/uk-government-end-unnecessary-male-circumcision-in-the-uk?utm_medium=email&utm_source=discussionupdate


FGM still widespread in the UK, those perpetrating it feel impunity, undermining health, and the law. Please sign online petition to UK Gov already signed by 162 people, very good motivations from each signatory - A resounding YES indeed to the question - Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

When a baby boy bleeds to death in Oldham as the result of an Unnecessary Male Circumcision is time to think again............

posted at 8/6/2012 2:35 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 5
First: 7/1/2010
Last: 8/6/2012
When a baby boy bleeds to death in Oldham as the result of an Unnecessary Male Circumcision is time to think again............

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 8/6/2012 2:40 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1
First: 8/6/2012
Last: 8/6/2012
male circumcision protects the female partner from cervical cancer

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0802556

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa011688

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 8/6/2012 4:29 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1266
First: 13/4/2010
Last: 21/5/2013

andalucia - if you are going to cite evidence please do so accurately. The study you have linked to actually says:

"Male circumcision was associated with a moderate, but nonsignificant, decrease in the risk of cervical cancer"

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 8/6/2012 10:51 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 2
First: 8/6/2012
Last: 16/10/2012
In response to "Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?":
Indeed why wait till they are 18?  Perhaps it would be nice for them to decide for themselves if they want the procedure. If at 18 they wish to pursue faith in a particular religion and want to be circumcised, then fine.   It does seem a bit odd that a perfect little life is born and the first thing some people want to do is remove their foreskin. What is the relevance of removing a foreskin?  How does it help ones faith? It just seems very sad to violate a baby in this way. If it is done for medical reasons I don't see how anyone could disagree with it,
Posted by kirked


People of faith make the same mistake: they blithely assume that their infants belong to the same faith! There is no such thing as a Muslim child or a Jewish child or a catholic child. There are many children born of Muslim parents, catholic parents and Jewish parents. Not quite the same thing. The reason that one must wait until the child is eighteen before lopping off his foreskin, or indeed any other bit of him, is that he is the person concerned and ought to be in a position to make such a decision for himself. Who knows but that he may decide that the parental faith is a load of cobblers and want no part in it..

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 8/6/2012 11:20 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 959
First: 15/7/2011
Last: 21/5/2013
In Response to Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?:
In response to "Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?": People of faith make the same mistake: they blithely assume that their infants belong to the same faith! There is no such thing as a Muslim child or a Jewish child or a catholic child. There are many children born of Muslim parents, catholic parents and Jewish parents. Not quite the same thing. The reason that one must wait until the child is eighteen before lopping off his foreskin, or indeed any other bit of him, is that he is the person concerned and ought to be in a position to make such a decision for himself. Who knows but that he may decide that the parental faith is a load of cobblers and want no part in it..
Posted by Maddoxrod


I agree with exactly what you have said. I note that one poster has suggested that we dont discuss this subject any further because there is such a difference of opinion. That is no reason to stop discussing the subject. It seems when a topic has aspects of religious faith then it becomes taboo to discuss. This topic is important and is a medical issue not a religious one. I have asked earlier what is the purpose of circumcision? If a religion says that it must be done then surely there must be a reason for it. What reason is it? How does it help ones faith?

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 9/6/2012 6:14 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1
First: 9/6/2012
Last: 9/6/2012
there is no question out lawing circucision of male child. this is a religious obligation and billions of muslims and jew children are being circumscribed since long. the only thing about it is to ensure its been done by safe hands because in underdeveloped islamic countries it is being carried out by unskilled quacks.
there is no room for circumcision of female children and it should be outlawed.
dr aslam
In Response to Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?:
Offence of female genital mutilation & Male Genital Mutilation (1)A person is guilty of an offence if he excises, infibulates or otherwise mutilates the whole or any part of a girl’s labia majora, labia minora or clitoris. .(2)But no offence is committed by an approved person who performs— .(a)a surgical operation on a girl which is necessary for her physical or mental health, or .(b)a surgical operation on a girl who is in any stage of labour, or has just given birth, for purposes connected with the labour or birth. .(3)The following are approved persons— .(a)in relation to an operation falling within subsection (2)(a), a registered medical practitioner, .(b)in relation to an operation falling within subsection (2)(b), a registered medical practitioner, a registered midwife or a person undergoing a course of training with a view to becoming such a practitioner or midwife. .(4)There is also no offence committed by a person who— .(a)performs a surgical operation falling within subsection (2)(a) or (b) outside the United Kingdom, and .(b)in relation to such an operation exercises functions corresponding to those of an approved person. .(5)For the purpose of determining whether an operation is necessary for the mental health of a girl it is immaterial whether she or any other person believes that the operation is required as a matter of custom or ritual . .Male circumcision has traditionally been presumed to be legal under British law, however some legal commentators have argued that there is no solid foundation for this view in English law.The passage of the Human Rights Act 1998 has led to some speculation that  the lawfulness of the circumcision of male children is unclear.Other countries also grapple with the issue of circumcision (of both sexes). In Finland for example FGM is specifically outlawed and male circumcision can only be undertaken when there is a compelling therapeutic reason.  In Israel it is lawful to circumcise boys and interestingly the government are proposing to outlaw ‘after death’ circumcision.  In the United States just 2 months ago the New York City District Attorney announced that he is investigating the death of a baby who contracted herpes after a "ritual circumcision with oral suction," in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish ceremony known in Hebrew as metzitzah b'peh.Previously, in  2004 the death of twins was caused by the same mohel; and in the more recent one, a mohel infected the penile wounds with Type 1 herpes I (HSV-1), which affects the mouth and throat. It is different from Type 2 or genital herpes (HSV-2), which is a sexually transmitted disease and can cause deadly infections when a newborn passes through an infected birth canal.I would be interested to know the laws about circumcision in other countries. Isn’t it time to put an end to all forms of mutilation of children’s genitals unless it must be done for medical reasons?. A small baby cannot give consent and  and once the ‘operation’ is performed it is essentially irreversible (there have been efforts at revision surgery).
Posted by kirked

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 9/6/2012 6:27 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 50
First: 5/3/2010
Last: 23/1/2013
it is misleading to include male circumcisionni with female genital mutilation. they are not the same and reflects badly on anyone who tries to include them together. totally unscientific.

the male foreskin can vary from being almost non existent to protruding up to two or so centimetres beyond the tip of the glans.

ask any male with a long foreskin what he thinks. it drips, it smells and is a bloody nuisance. ask any female what she thinks. if circ'd she will say it looks better, it works better and it tastes better.  not my words, but patients.

not having a foreskin causes no problems. having a long dangly foreskin does. look up the literature.

if parents should wait until a child is 18 before doing what they consider is in the child's best interest, then no vaccination should be carried out before that age. no child should be allowed to play football in case he hits his head or breaks a bone. no child should be allowed to climb a tree. better still, do not allow them to do anything until they are 18 and can consent to it. it is certainly heading that way.

as doctors we should look at the evidence before making stupid pronouncements. but then when i said to a paediatrician 'look at the evudence' his answere was ' i am not interested in evidence'.  sad but true

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 9/6/2012 8:00 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1786
First: 7/3/2009
Last: 22/5/2013
Again, I urge you:stop this discussion.
Two very long chains of discussions have brought no agreement about it.
Enough was said already and I don't want to get into it again.
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