What do you think?

Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?
False
General clinical
Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?
Discuss any specialty in this open forum for all healthcare professionals
Offence of female genital mutilation & Male Genital Mutilation (1)A person is guilty of an offence if he excises, infibulates or otherwise mutilates the whole or any part of a girl’s labia
0
Cat:OpenClinicalForum:GeneralClinical
Cat:OpenClinicalForum:GeneralClinicalDiscussion:acd0f21c-e092-407a-ab2b-38fd88f8f5c6

Forums » Open clinical » General clinical » Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

You must be logged in to contribute. Log in | Register
 
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >> Last
Forums  »  Open clinical  »  General clinical  »  Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 1/6/2012 3:31 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 959
First: 15/7/2011
Last: 21/5/2013

Offence of female genital mutilation & Male Genital Mutilation

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he excises, infibulates or otherwise mutilates the whole or any part of a girl’s labia majora, labia minora or clitoris. .(2)But no offence is committed by an approved person who performs— .(a)a surgical operation on a girl which is necessary for her physical or mental health, or .(b)a surgical operation on a girl who is in any stage of labour, or has just given birth, for purposes connected with the labour or birth. .(3)The following are approved persons— .(a)in relation to an operation falling within subsection (2)(a), a registered medical practitioner, .(b)in relation to an operation falling within subsection (2)(b), a registered medical practitioner, a registered midwife or a person undergoing a course of training with a view to becoming such a practitioner or midwife. .(4)There is also no offence committed by a person who— .(a)performs a surgical operation falling within subsection (2)(a) or (b) outside the United Kingdom, and .(b)in relation to such an operation exercises functions corresponding to those of an approved person. .(5)For the purpose of determining whether an operation is necessary for the mental health of a girl it is immaterial whether she or any other person believes that the operation is required as a matter of custom or ritual. .Male circumcision has traditionally been presumed to be legal under British law, however some legal commentators have argued that there is no solid foundation for this view in English law.The passage of the Human Rights Act 1998 has led to some speculation that  the lawfulness of the circumcision of male children is unclear.Other countries also grapple with the issue of circumcision (of both sexes). In Finland for example FGM is specifically outlawed and male circumcision can only be undertaken when there is a compelling therapeutic reason.  In Israel it is lawful to circumcise boys and interestingly the government are proposing to outlaw ‘after death’ circumcision.  In the United States just 2 months ago the New York City District Attorney announced that he is investigating the death of a baby who contracted herpes after a "ritual circumcision with oral suction," in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish ceremony known in Hebrew as metzitzah b'peh.Previously, in  2004 the death of twins was caused by the same mohel; and in the more recent one, a mohel infected the penile wounds with Type 1 herpes I (HSV-1), which affects the mouth and throat. It is different from Type 2 or genital herpes (HSV-2), which is a sexually transmitted disease and can cause deadly infections when a newborn passes through an infected birth canal.I would be interested to know the laws about circumcision in other countries. Isn’t it time to put an end to all forms of mutilation of children’s genitals unless it must be done for medical reasons?. A small baby cannot give consent and  and once the ‘operation’ is performed it is essentially irreversible (there have been efforts at revision surgery).

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 1/6/2012 4:30 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 311
First: 7/5/2009
Last: 2/4/2013
Billions of  males from the Islamic and Jewish faith have  undergone ritual / Religious circumsicion in the last so many centuries.   Please don't confuse genital mutilation with surgically performed circumcision in males. 

Apart from this there is scientific evidence in favor of male ( not female ) circumsion.





But this procedure":ritual circumcision with oral suction"doesn't make sense .

Circumcision should not be outlawed and one cannot out law a practice which is part of the religious practice of billions aroud the globe and has positively contributed towards reducing the risk of HIV, penile cancer and STD

But There is NO room for female circumcision though.

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 1/6/2012 4:38 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 311
First: 7/5/2009
Last: 2/4/2013
And here is more scientific evidence on its benefits Vs Risks

One can make out that benefits out weigh the risks by a large margin

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 1/6/2012 4:54 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 959
First: 15/7/2011
Last: 21/5/2013
In Response to Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?:
Billions of  males from the Islamic and Jewish faith have  undergone ritual / Religious circumsicion in the last so many centuries.   Please don't confuse genital mutilation with surgically performed circumcision in males.  Apart from this there is scientific evidence in favor of male ( not female ) circumsion. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1104451 http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=203169 http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm http://sti.bmj.com/content/74/5/368.full.pdf But this procedure": ritual circumcision with oral suction" doesn't make sense . Circumcision should not be outlawed and one cannot out law a practice which is part of the religious practice of billions aroud the globe and has positively contributed towards reducing the risk of HIV, penile cancer and STD But There is NO room for female circumcision though.
Posted by drrathore


Drrathore, wouldn't it be better to wait till the child turns 18 (your first reference above suggests this). Does it say in the Koran or Bible that children should be cirumcised?. I don't see how religious observance alone can justify circumcision. Certainly the reference above states that there are definite health benefits for male circumcision. The Ultra orthodox Jew requires a mohal to perform the circumcision, this procedure as outlined above sounds utterly dreadful, it has the most horrible connotations.

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 1/6/2012 5:30 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 311
First: 7/5/2009
Last: 2/4/2013
Just to clarify myself, i am only in favor of a clean surgical circumcision under appropriate anesthesia and clean conditions

I agree that this procedure requiring a Mohal does sounds weird and dreadful.

I am not sure about the Bible but the circumcision has been obligated for Muslims in the teachings of Prophet Muhammad ( The hadith). 

If there is a religious obligation and scientifically proven benefit to a procedure then why to wait for 18 years.

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 1/6/2012 5:44 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 959
First: 15/7/2011
Last: 21/5/2013
Indeed why wait till they are 18?  Perhaps it would be nice for them to decide for themselves if they want the procedure. If at 18 they wish to pursue faith in a particular religion and want to be circumcised, then fine.  It does seem a bit odd that a perfect little life is born and the first thing some people want to do is remove their foreskin. What is the relevance of removing a foreskin?  How does it help ones faith? It just seems very sad to violate a baby in this way. If it is done for medical reasons I don't see how anyone could disagree with it,

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 1/6/2012 8:09 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1266
First: 13/4/2010
Last: 21/5/2013
No-one who is unable to give informed consent should be subjected to any elective surgical procedure. If consenting adults wish to mutilate/re-construct their genitals for ethnic or religious reasons that is up to them but genital surgery forced on a child who cannot give consent (no matter how humanely it is done) is abhorrent to me.

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 1/6/2012 8:17 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 959
First: 15/7/2011
Last: 21/5/2013
In Response to Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?:
No-one who is unable to give informed consent should be subjected to any elective surgical procedure. If consenting adults wish to mutilate/re-construct their genitals for ethnic or religious reasons that is up to them but genital surgery forced on a child who cannot give consent (no matter how humanely it is done) is abhorrent to me.
Posted by skyesteve


Absolutely spot on !!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 1/6/2012 11:04 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 3045
First: 27/3/2012
Last: 20/5/2013
Here, I have the same opinion as skyesteve. A genital surgery done or although might have been performed as part of ritual procedure, cannot have legal support where the child is not able to give a valid consent.

Re: Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?

posted at 2/6/2012 9:28 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 311
First: 7/5/2009
Last: 2/4/2013
If this is the logic "' No-one who is unable to give informed consent should be subjected to any elective surgical procedure""

then the parents should wait for 18 years and let their children decide if they want an ELECTIVE surgery for cleft lip, deformed nose, hypospidias and other congentinal deformities/anomallies  which are NOT life threatening.



As i said earlier. let's not confuse male  circumcision with genital mutilation, specially when there is tons of scientific evidence in favor of it. 
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >> Last

Forums » Open clinical » General clinical » Should circumcision of both sexes be outlawed unless medically indicated?