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Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?
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Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?
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In his recent article, Des Spence has attracted some controversy about his comments regarding homeopathy, saying that it is “bad science but good medicine.” He claims that “homeopat
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Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 26/9/2012 11:06 AM BST on bmj.com
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In his recent article, Des Spence has attracted some controversy about his comments regarding homeopathy, saying that it is “bad science but good medicine.”

He claims that “homeopathy is medicine’s whipping boy”,  and whilst he does not believe that homeopathic pills work, he says that “homeopathic doctors I know are caring people, disillusioned with the crudeness of conventional medicine, not your typical aggressive alpha medical type.”

“They listen, spend time, and offer some explanation for the unexplainable—and their patients like them. The effect of homeopathy is the positive effect of a therapeutic relationship that is reassuring, accepting, and supportive. Society should never underestimate the healing effect of a kind word or the value of a holistic approach. These consultations genuinely improve wellbeing. Homeopathic pills are placebos, but the placebo response is great, maybe even as high as 80%.”

http://www.bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e6184


Also, to quote a Rapid Response from our very own doc2doc member skyesteve:

“I don't deny that homoeopathy helps a lot of people but why should the NHS pay for it if it is not prepared to pay for osteopathy, chiropractic, aromatherapy, hot stones massage, reflexology, candles in your ears, tubes up your bottom, footbaths that turn brown? That for me is the fundamental question. Why should the NHS fund some irrational 18th century snake oil scheme just because some people claim that it helps them? (For those who haven't yet read them I strongly recommend the chapters on homoeopathy by Ben Goldacre and Ernst and Singh in their respective books). Far better to spend that money on counsellors or CBT therapists if you really want to help medically unexplained symptoms.”


Does Spence have a point? Do we underestimate the work that homeopathy does? Or should more money be invested in counsellors and CBT therapists?

Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 26/9/2012 11:47 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1343
First: 13/4/2010
Last: 19/6/2013

For those who are interested, here's my Rapid Response in full:-

Dr Spence says “Our energy would be better used addressing the much bigger issue of the iatrogenic harm of conventional medicine” I would ask – why can we not do both? Challenge mumbo-jumbo AND the various iatrogenic problems of modern healthcare?

Homoeopathy lacks any evidence basis to show that it is better than placebo – in other words it is no better than a “sugar pill”. Those who claim otherwise are guilty of ignoring the scientific evidence. If they fail to tell their patients about the complete lack of an evidence basis that homoeopathy is better than placebo then they are guilty of deception, something of which the GMC should take a dim view if they are doctors. It is also wrong to refer to homoeopathy as complementary therapy. Complementary is defined in the dictionary as that which completes or makes up a whole – when talked about in the same context as evidence – and science-based modern medicine homoeopathy can in no way be described as complementary because it defies the laws of physics and our understanding of physiology. Thus it can only legitimately be referred to as alternative therapy.

Now if that’s the context in which the NHS funded homoeopathy and equal funding, time and weight was also given to things like reflexology, cranio-sacral therapy, hot stone massage, Hopi ear candles or waving crystals around your body to identify your aura then that would be quite legitimate and Dr Spence might have a valid point.

I don’t deny that homoeopathy helps a lot of people but why should the NHS pay for it if it is not prepared to pay for osteopathy, chiropractic, aromatherapy, hot stones massage, reflexology, candles in your ears, tubes up your bottom, footbaths that turn brown? That for me is the fundamental question. Why should the NHS fund some irrational 18th century snake oil scheme just because some people claim that it helps them? (For those who haven’t yet read them I strongly recommend the chapters on homoeopathy by Ben Goldacre and Ernst and Singh in their respective books). Far better to spend that money on counsellors or CBT therapists if you really want to help medically unexplained symptoms.

Hey, but what do I know – I’m just a tax payer who thinks, at a time of overt rationing, the NHS has an obligation to spend my taxes more wisely in future.

To those who would state “What do you know – you haven’t studied homoeopathy or subatomic physics” – I have studied homoeopathy to the level required for MFHom and it’s the only time in my life that the more I learned about something the less I believed it. In addition, I have been reading about quantum theory and subatomic physics for 25 years and I have a fair lay understanding of both. There is nothing in either that provides a good evidence basis for homoeopathy – otherwise I would have been the first to say so and outline why.

However, I digress. The main point of Dr Spence’s article is not whether homoeopathy works at a higher level than the placebo effect – he has effectively admitted himnself that it does not. Rather he is arguing that the NHS should fund it as it’s good for patients and good for the NHS. This is where I beg to differ. If people want to spend their own money on whatever makes them feel better I’m all for that – 100%. But when every day brings another story of the NHS rationing things that we know make a real difference to patients or when the NHS refuses to adequately resourse things like cognitive behavioural therapy then I have a real issue with it spending £40 million a year on homoeopathy because “people like it”. I would love a weekly massage and would definitely feel much better for it. Can I have that on the NHS please?

Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 26/9/2012 1:46 PM BST on bmj.com
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First: 17/11/2011
Last: 24/2/2013
First off, I have to admit a preference here - I don't like homeopathy.  In the same way as I don't like any treatment that has no evidence to back it up - conventional or woo-based.

Any time I see a comment saying "I believe it works" it gets my hackles up.

Now that's out of the way...
 
From any review of the evidence via Cochrane, pubmed, or fantastically - even a close look at most of the studies quoted by the British Homeopathic Society themselves  http://www.facultyofhomeopathy.org/research/systematic_reviews/index.html - there's very little statistically significant evidence that Homeopathy is anything more than a very well organised placebo.

Of course some people are going to feel better - that's how people are.

So should shaken water be funded by taxation because some people say it makes them feel better?  Absolutely not - fund longer GP consultations instead.

Duane - I can't wait to see your comments on this Smile

Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 26/9/2012 2:04 PM BST on bmj.com
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First: 13/4/2010
Last: 19/6/2013
And now we have a rapid response on the BMJ pages from Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD), "scientist/author retired", which states:

The classical example is quinin. When administered in a visible dose quinin causes spiking chills alternating with fever, heart palpitations and other symtoms characteristic of malaria. When administered in a homeopathic ultradiluted form, it will heal a person suffering malaria.

This is just dangerous nonsense which clearly demonstrates that homoeopathy and homoeopaths can (and do) cause harm. There is not one shred of substantial scientific evidence to back up a claim that homoeopathic quinine "heals" malaria.

Moreover the side effects of quinine listed in the British National Formulary include tinnitus, hearing loss, vertigo, headaches, nausea/vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhoea, visual disturbances, confusion, cardio-vascular effects, dyspnoea, angio-oedema, rashes, hypoglycaemia, clotting problems, acute renal failure, muscle weakness and photosensitivity. There is no mention of "spiking chills alternating with fever" so this statement is simply untrue. And, remember, many people taking therapeutic doses of quinine (say 200mg a day) may get no side effects at all!

Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 26/9/2012 4:48 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 92
First: 20/3/2012
Last: 25/10/2012
To begin with, I do not believe in most "alternative" therapies and never have but have no problem with those who do believe, and swear by them in some cases.

I have just read the article, the rapid responses and a couple of the YouTube videos posted by one of the responders. And, honestly, the more I read and hear, the more I think that those that are currently running the NHS have no clue. Honestly, I am struggling to get beyond the "Imprint" or whatever that the element leaves behind in the water that it was mixed with.....does this mean that, if I make a glass of Orange Squash, and then dilute it (and shake it in 3 dimensions of course!) 1,500 (or however many times) times, the water will take on the properties of the squash and it will be stronger than the first time I diluted it? So, it should taste like very strong undiluted orange squash but, I suspect, it will taste like water. So, on this basis, I am to believe that the water will assume the properties of whatever is diluted in it?

Some of the arguments for Homeopathy are plausible, even if not convincing. My problem is Ms Sheibner (one of the rapid responders). Beyond her argument about the effects of Quinine (which Skysteve has clearly demonstrated are false), she talks about a homeopathic solution of Quinine can cure Malaria. Fine, but I was under the impression that Homeopathy was for the treatment of Undiagnosed/non-specific conditions. Malaria is a very specific condition to me, so that staement completely contradicts everything else she said.  Her statement about Switzerland was also misinformed given they only implemented it into the health-care system through the pressure of Homeopathics. I realise this may not be the section to be arguing her statements but I wanted to show how contradictory some of the staements about Homeopathy can be.

I am also quite bemused by their choosing a "placebo" (after all, that's what they are) based on someone's personality profile? So someone gets their, whatever, based on, star sign maybe? Or would a shy, introvert get something different to a outgoing, extrovert? That is just wrong in my mind on so many levels that I can't even begin to comtemplate discussing it.

Then there is the issue of what and how much do they actually tell their clients (I can't bring myself to say they treat patients)? Do they explain the 3-D shaking, the 1,000+ times dilution, the fact that the product has nothing in it but some electrons, neutrons, protons or whatever else? That they are basically paying for the privelege of talking to someone?

It all boils down to one simple argument: Homeopathics want it on the NHS because they believe it is a miracle cure; Medicine doesn't want it because there is no evidence to suggest it has any benefit whatsoever (beyond making the client believe they are being treated and having someone to talk to). Des Spence argues that it can be controlled and regulated if on the NHS. So could Ecstasy but it doesn't mean we should. With the NHS in such a perilous financial state that patients lives everyday are at risk from staff cuts, how can we possibly afford something that, for all intents and purposes, strikes me as a cheap parlour trick (although not so cheap when it comes to billing). If most of the Homeopathic effect is caused by the Holistic, "I am listening to you" reason, then surely Counselling and CBT would be just as effective.

To my mind, Homeopathy is just another thing that treats the symptoms, not the cause......the client may feel better but it doesn't mean they are cured. If a lot of the problems are due to psychological states (as evidence by the personality profiles), then logic dictates that behavioural and psychological interventions such as counselling, CBT, etc would be the most relevant and effective course of action. And, with those, there is evidence.  Some people argue that evidence-based isn't everything but, if that is the case, then why is pretty much every Health Profession "Evidence-Based" Practice (Nursing is, medicine is, Physio is etc)?

Sorry for going on a bit but, after reading the arguments for and against Homeopathy, I found the evidence against much more compelling and it really angers me that the NHS is wasting it's precious few resources on this when they could be focussing on things that are proven to benefit people such as Cancer Care, Heart Failure Care etc

Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 26/9/2012 9:00 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1828
First: 7/3/2009
Last: 18/6/2013
It is a hot topic. I have said before and others have done so in previous discussions, that it also has to do with patients losing trust in conventional medicine, perhaps because there is less care for patient and more care for the condition. So patients seek help in all kinds of alternative treatments.
Some of the effects  of alternative therapies can be explained through some scientific mechanism ( release of endorphins in acupuncture, relaxation of muscle spasm and increased blood flow in massage etc.) Some have no known mechanism and perhaps act through the placebo effect. That by itself is not simply patient believing, but also neurotransmitters that can affect neuroendocrine balance, thus exerting effects that can be measured(higher levels of certain hormones etc.
Here in Israel we have an additional complementary insurance people buy in addition to the coverage that is being given by the HMOs. Those additiional health insurances include also series of  a certain number of alternative treatments available at low cost. So, if in addition the patient wants to receive such treatments it is possibleto use up the yearly quota of these through the complementary insurance. Some HMOs incorporate those treatments in their clinics, thus providing a certain control. However, there is no known scientific proof that homeopathy works in any other way than placebo effect. 

Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 27/9/2012 3:16 PM BST on bmj.com
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First: 7/5/2009
Last: 11/6/2013
To quote Greg Henry, medicine is show business for ugly people.
And much of what we do is show business.
Think of all the antibiotics given for viral infections. (If we don't know viral from bacterial, we should go back to school.)
All the effort to contol blood sugar in dilutional diabetics (Type 2).
All the pills given for mild hypertension (see Cochrane review.)
Homeopathy might be selling expensive water, placebos but at least that water does no harm.
We tolerate selling water with active harm, effectively giving nocebos.

Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 27/9/2012 3:31 PM BST on bmj.com
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First: 25/1/2012
Last: 25/4/2013
For acute cases,there is no alternative to evidence based Western medicine.If anyone thinks otherwise,he should have his credentials examined carefully.There is a place for alternate systems in chronic conditons where aetiology,diagnosis and treatment are speculative.Till such time as these systems can produce a well grounded,scientific pharmacopoeia and are able to conduct clinical trials,scientifically,it's best to leave them alone.

Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 27/9/2012 3:42 PM BST on bmj.com
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First: 12/7/2010
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Can bad science ever be good medicine?

Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?

posted at 27/9/2012 4:14 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1343
First: 13/4/2010
Last: 19/6/2013
In Response to Re: Is homeopathy good medicine (but just bad science)?:
Can bad science ever be good medicine?
Posted by Deb_D


No
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