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The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up
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The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up
Discuss any aspect of type I or type II diabetes mellitus here
Arts EE, Landewe-Cleuren SA, Schaper NC, et al.  The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up.  J A
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Forums » Open clinical » Diabetes » The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

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Forums  »  Open clinical  »  Diabetes  »  The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 20/7/2012 1:22 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 453
First: 29/4/2011
Last: 14/5/2013

Arts EE, Landewe-Cleuren SA, Schaper NC, et al. The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up. J Adv Nurs. 2012 Jun;68(6):1224-34. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2648.2011.05797.x. Epub 2011 Oct 17. (Original)

RCT: Care by diabetes nurse specialists was similar to physician care for quality of life and cost-effectiveness in types 1 and 2 diabetes mellitus.

PMID: 22004474      

AIMS: To evaluate the cost-effectiveness of an intervention substituting physicians with nurse specialists.

BACKGROUND: Increasing populations of people with diabetes in most Western countries require creative solutions that give high-quality chronic care while controlling costs. Instigating nurse specialists as a substitute for physicians yields positive results in this area. Research about such interventions in a hospital-based setting is limited.

METHODS: This paper is a report of a study of a randomized, non-blinded clinical trial including people with diabetes mellitus types 1 and 2. In the intervention group nurse specialists were the central carers, providing care that conformed to a preset protocol. Patients were included between 2004 and 2007. Costs, quality of life and adverse events were measured, cost-effect ratios and incremental cost-effect ratios were calculated based on health-resource utilization rates, corresponding market prices and national tariffs from 2007.

RESULTS: Health related quality of life scores did not differ significantly between the control and the intervention group. In the intervention group, fewer patients were hospitalized and fewer side effects from drugs were reported compared to controls. Nurse specialists as central care givers generated a modest reduction in costs per quality adjusted life year gained compared to usual care.

CONCLUSION: Nurse specialists give diabetes care that is similar to care provided by physicians in terms of quality of life and economic value. Instigating a nurse specialist as central carer yields opportunities to generate cost savings. Developing interventions which also focus on prevention of complications is recommended when aiming for long-term organisational cost savings.

 

COMMENT:  While an interesting contribution, this study does not add much to an already large body of data that suggest that in low risk populations advance practice nurses can deliver protocol-based care efficiently and effectively.  In settings where there are such nurses such as In the United States, they are already seeing patients in primary care settings.  In fact, the most common primary care practice in the US consists of a receptionist, an advance practice nurse or physician’s assistant and a physician.  It is reassuring that they do a good job, but not particularly news.

 

 

Re: The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 21/7/2012 4:52 AM BST on bmj.com
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First: 17/10/2009
Last: 13/3/2013
Oh Boy!..You are opening a pendora's box...We in the US have been run over by these so called "wannabe doctors" who couldn't get into Medical school, so they use the back door to get into medicine. US, is the only country in the world where nurses--who after 2 yrs of training in anesthesia can provide anesthesia in hospitals. At first, they HAD to be supervised by anesthesiologist,he had be attendance during induction and emergence. Anesthesiologist started using the so called CRNA--certified registered nurse anesthetist--they were cheap labor. Nursing schools started rolling out 1000 CRNAs every year.Today the ratio of CRNA to Anesthesiologist is 4:1..Shocking. ..Now they have a strong lobby..have a very active Political Action Committee..which literally bribes the politicians, who in turn passed legislation-- so that they can practise independently of the anesthesiologist and get paid for the  services --mind you for the same reimbursement as what an anesthesiologist gets....Majority of them make same amount as an anesthesiologist. In the event of a malpractice suite---the surgeon --with deeper pockets gets screwed--as these wannabe doctors say " Oh! I am just a nurse, I am NOT a doctor" ( actual transcript from a medical malpractice case).  So now we have proliferation of these wannabe doctors----Physician Assistants ( PA )--Nurse Practitioners ( NP )etc. etc..Most of these now have infiltrated all US operating theaters--where they can assist the surgeon--and can get paid 16% of the surgeons fee...They can suture,remove pins,or sutures or staples, apply cast..etc.etc.Eventually, these will replace doctors...So UK docs watch out ! Once they get their foot in the door, it would be hard to get rid of them..Simply, if they want to practise medicine let them go to medical School--Kabish !!!!..

Re: The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 21/7/2012 11:09 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 8
First: 15/10/2010
Last: 26/11/2012
I can't understand why such a demanding and expensive  examination for foreign doctors some of whom have an international medical exam. Going to the UK for the exam.
 A restrictive permit of exercise will be a solution for both.
Mario

Re: The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 22/7/2012 1:20 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 878
First: 17/6/2011
Last: 24/5/2013
I agree with silvrfox - this is  a real pandora's box- i think what this study tells us is that specialist nurse's can provide protocol based care as well as doctors - and undoubtedly this will be cheaper in many instances but who writes the protocols and what if the protocol doesn't fit?sadian

Re: The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 22/7/2012 9:48 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1791
First: 7/3/2009
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I am not convinced that the study results should be interpreted as a recommendation to replace physicians by nurses in treatment of diabetes.
Probably the best is both professions involved as complementary to each other.
Just for the sake of treating all kinds of patients, both uncomplicated and complicated.
The popular cost-effective approach of looking at things through the $ sign is limited and short sighted.
Observe the journal that published the study..... let me put it gently that I do not believe the journal would publish a manuscript with opposing conclusions.

Re: The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 28/7/2012 1:24 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 453
First: 29/4/2011
Last: 14/5/2013

I have been pondering the vigorous responses to what I thought was a pretty benign and sort of old news post about how advanced practice nurses can deliver high quality protocol-driven diabetes care.  I feel my job in this blog is to present data and to summarize how I think the data are to be applied to clinical practice.  Occasionally I rant about the shortcomings of the health care systems around the world when it comes to chronic disease especially when applied to diabetes.  And part of that rant is the payment systems that do not permit the rational building of multidisciplinary teams for the care of chronic diseases.

 At the risk of stirring up a hornets’ nest, I will try to put some perspective on the issues raised both by the respondents to the post and the general issue of the role of advanced practice nurses within the health care system.  Let me begin by pointing out that since barbers competed with surgeons, the borders of medical practice have been porous and physicians have always had competition: oral surgeons versus maxillary-facial surgeons, psychologists versus psychiatrists, and podiatrists versus orthopedic surgeons, to mention a few current ones.   Even within the profession, there are strong feelings about who should be doing what: back surgery by neurosurgeons or orthopedic surgeons, percutaneous vascular interventions by radiologists or cardiologists, as examples.

 

 So it is no surprise that the advent of advanced practice nurses has ignited controversy since its inception in 1965.  Advanced practice nurses evolved because market forces could not provide primary care to underserved individuals especially inner city and rural areas.  The vast majority of advanced practice nurses work in community health centers alongside primary care physicians.  These centers deliver care to the underserved that the fee-for-service market has been unable to serve.    

 

And the science is there.  There are literally hundreds of articles that demonstrate advance practice nurses can deliver high-quality care especially in the primary care setting in conjunction with primary care physicians. 

 

 Nurse anesthetists evolved because there were not enough anesthesiologists willing to staff small rural hospitals.  One post suggests that there are issues of competition and quality between nurse anesthetists and anesthesiologists. Regarding financial competition the median income of US anesthesiologists is over $335,000, that of nurse anesthetists less than $100,000 or about $28,000/year above the average outpatient nurse’s salary.

 

 If one asserts that the quality of care delivered by nurse anesthetists is inferior to that delivered by anesthesiologists or is only equivalent when they are under physician supervision, then there is an obligation to present data to demonstrate that fact.  I have no experience in this area, but I was unable to find data to support that contention.  In fact, there are considerable data that support nurse anesthetists’ outcomes are not inferior to anesthesiologists’ under the circumstances that they practice in  Please see the websites summarizing data listed below:

Nurse anesthetists’ outcomes

 

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/29/8/1469.abstract

Nurse anesthetist salaries

http://www1.salary.com/Certified-Nurse-Anesthetist-Salary.html

Anesthesiologist’s income

http://www1.salary.com/anesthesiologist-Salary.html

Nurse anesthetist’s legal issues

http://www.aana.com/aboutus/Documents/legalissuesnap.pdf

 A couple of posts suggested that the data on the effectiveness of advanced nurse practitioners could be biased because the journals that published the data or that the environment of their practices was limited.  Here are two articles that seem, at least to me, objectify the data on the outcomes achieved by advanced practice nurses.  One is from the nursing literature and one from the Agency for Health Care Research and Quality (“AHRQ”) within the US Department of Health and Human Services:

 

 Systemic review of advanced practice nurse outcomes

 

https://www.nursingeconomics.net/ce/2013/article3001021.pdf

Chapter reviewing advanced practice nurse articles for AHRQ

http://www.ahrq.gov/qual/nurseshdbk/docs/O'GradyE_APRN.pdf

 There is no question that the complex nature of modern medical practice requires a mixture of talents and training.  Not my favorite President, Ronald Regan, had on his desk a sign that said: “It is amazing what you can accomplish when you do not care who gets the credit.”  About sixty per cent of primary care practices involve chronic diseases that are excellent candidates for protocol-driven care.  This leaves the physician to supervise those patients that require his or her special training and skills.

 Patients are increasingly being called upon to be active in self-care from diabetes or blood pressure monitoring to measuring their INRs at home.  Self-care involves time, talents and skills that are more generally found on the nursing side of medical care rather than the physicians’ side.  All in all well-coordinated teams of varying configurations will deliver the best primary care.

http://www.ndep.nih.gov/media/teamcare.pdf

 

 

 

 

Re: The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 28/7/2012 9:16 AM BST on bmj.com
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First: 7/3/2009
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I will try to clarify my point too. I am all for multidisciplinary teams for treatment of patients.
I do know highly skilled nurses can provide good treatment, but I am not convinced about nurse making alone the decisions about treatments, at least not in all cases.
There have been paramedics and people called "feldchers" in the Soviet Union,that functioned as an intermediary between a doctor and nurse and provided treatment, especially at distant places, however their function was limited. Again, understand me the right way, providing treatment is something that nurses can do well, but what bothers me is where we draw the limit. That is, if it depends on administrators, they can well decide that a nurse is enough and doctor is not needed to look after diabetics. Is that right? Not in my opinion. Team work is the issue for making treatment decisions, not who does carry out the decisions better.
And look at the title "cost effectiveness", not "quality of care"...Where money is involved and money is measured, it doesn't mean the quality is as good or better. 

Re: The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 28/7/2012 3:43 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 453
First: 29/4/2011
Last: 14/5/2013

Well taken.  Your concerns about administrators substituting lesser-trained personnel to save money must be addressed by clear quality measure. I also worry about "guilds".  Whether they are made up of associations of advanced practice nurses, nurse anesthetists or of anesthesiologists, their goals to promote their members can conflict with the interests of the patients and they promote “parallel play” rather than truly functioning teams.  The Institute of Medicine has recommended joint educational experiences among medical, nursing and other health professional students in order that they may gain experience working together and learning each other’s strengths and abilities.  As a medical educator I see practical limitations in achieving this goal given the differences in the duration of training involved.

I am actually more in favor of the type of communication training now used extensively in the airline industry.  Their studies suggested that a significant number of accidents and near misses were the result of undue reticence by others in the cockpit to question the captain’s decision.  Improving this communication is now part of their training including in simulations.  Similar observations have been reported among surgery teams and efforts have been made in the training of surgical teams to improved communication.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1877003/

 

Re: The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 28/7/2012 9:32 PM BST on bmj.com
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Questioning decisions and discussing them is absolutely necessary.
My late father who was an internist, was training his nurses on the ward he managed to be an integral part of the team. They were also thought to ask questions and he achieved a very skillful balance of medical team work.And I do know the value of experienced nurses that can provide good advice. I am just worried when things are taken to extreme.
Moreover, I do teach my technical and administrative medical personnel to be involved in what I believe is a more complete quality of care.
And it comes down to the important point that managing patient care wisely and professionaly will result in better outcome, hence it will save a lot of expenses in care of complications ( a point to remember for the administratorsSmile).

Re: The cost-effectiveness of substituting physicians with diabetes nurse specialists: a randomized controlled trial with 2-year follow-up

posted at 29/7/2012 12:07 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 453
First: 29/4/2011
Last: 14/5/2013
We are absolutely on the same page.

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