Forums » Off duty » News & media » Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
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Re: Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
posted at 7/2/2012 9:54 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1283
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Well John D, yes it is that simple, Plain and Simple! Get real, I mean the Doctors did not kill Bin Laden, he was terminated by US Navy Seals! So there is no violation of Hippocratic Oath. Now as to the destruction of trust among pakistanis, well they were hiding him in their own country, surely your smart enough to see that as being accessory to harboring a fugitive terrorist. Funny how you can believe that harboring a terrorist is ok, but hunting him down is not. well this is sad, but not altogether surprising, Doctors often in their search for enlightenment miss the big facts, such as this, and take the sides of the terrorists. Perhaps you would have liked it better if bin laden was allowed to live, then he let loose a Massive Nerve agent attack on your country killing thousands? I for one say anyone who kills thousands is not a human anymore. Some people are ruthless, the world is not safe, not even if we pretend it so!DuaneF |
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Re: Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
posted at 8/2/2012 3:10 AM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 134
First: 25/5/2011 Last: 17/5/2013 |
Not that I do swear by Apollo, but since Hippocrates has been mentioned, I would argue that the following edited and highlighted bit of the oath, courtesy of Wikipedia, is relevant to this case. Anybody foolish enough to appear on BBC radio to try and justify the case for the abuse of medical privilege in this instance will no doubt be questioned on this point. Perhaps they would be kind enough to debate the matter here first. The passage I refer to is in bold: I swear by Apollo the Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods, and goddesses............................................................
Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves................................................. Nowhere does it say that, "I will knowingly get involved in a plot to get the father of the family shot by pretending to be doing some medical work on his children when in fact I'm really doing some non-consented DNA identification, and in the full knowledge that at no point has the man I'm going to get killed appeared in any Court anywhere in the world and been tried and convicted" Osama Bin Laden was a notorious wanted man and, given the gravity of the crimes for which he was charged, I would certainly have felt a duty to Society at large and quite justified in reporting his whereabouts to the appropriate authorities. His children however were innocent, separate people and patients who did not deserve to be treated unprofessionally. Even during a war, which this was not, I do not believe that it should ever be a doctor's role to deliberately work in order to increase the number of the dead, even by one. If that is changing, then I fear that as a profession we may be in a lot of trouble and will soon lose any right to the rich inheritance of over two millennia currently bestowed on us by our professional forebear Hippocrates of Kos. This is a more delicate gift than one might initially suppose, for in the event of being just once seriously damaged, it will never regain its former lustre and so forever remain spoiled, tainted and withered in the eyes of those to whom we shall all, inevitably, have to surrender our small part of its stewardship. |
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Re: Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
posted at 8/2/2012 7:40 AM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1784
First: 7/3/2009 Last: 18/5/2013 |
I think something is missing here. You are obliged to treat a sick person, no matter who he is and what he has done, however you are also obliged to report a criminal act to authorities. The doctor in question did not kill Bin Laden.Yes. he reported him to the authorities. Authorities chose to execute him.
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Re: Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
posted at 15/2/2012 10:41 AM GMT
on bmj.com
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*Moderator*
Posts: 1444
First: 7/4/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
The Telegraph report that the Pakistani doctor Shikal Afridi who assisted the CIA in tracking down bin Laden has been nominated for a Congressional Gold Medal, which is the US's highest civilian honour. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/9081273/Pakistani-doctor-to-be-nominated-for-Congressional-Gold-Medal-over-Osama-bin-Laden-raid.html |
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Re: Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
posted at 15/2/2012 5:39 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2047
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Duane, I admire your simple patriotism. I did not say that a doctor killed Bin Laden, and that is the premise of this thread. Nor could the people of Abbottabad who were visited by a doctor for allegedly false public health reasons be held responsible for his presence in their community. That could be a charge against the local or national government of Pakistan, but not the ordinary people, who were misled by a doctor, and that contravenes any medical ethos. As for your ad hominem attack on my own honesty, accusing me of harbouring but not hunting a terrorist, and even being complacent in the face of terrorist victims - you only make yourself look ridiculous. John |
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Re: Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
posted at 15/2/2012 6:12 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1283
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
In Response to Re: Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?: Duane, I admire your simple patriotism. I did not say that a doctor killed Bin Laden, and that is the premise of this thread. Nor could the people of Abbottabad who were visited by a doctor for allegedly false public health reasons be held responsible for his presence in their community. That could be a charge against the local or national government of Pakistan, but not the ordinary people, who were misled by a doctor, and that contravenes any medical ethos. As for your ad hominem attack on my own honesty, accusing me of harbouring but not hunting a terrorist, and even being complacent in the face of terrorist victims - you only make yourself look ridiculous. John Posted by John D Well John D, You misread my post, I did not accuse you of Harboring Bin Laden, I said you thought it was ok for Pakistan to harbor him, I do not think this! A simple reading of the post will reveal what I wrote. I also do not think you are complacent in the face of Terrorist victims, Rather I think you care more for the procedures of medicine rather than common sense colutions. Getting Bin Laden was #1 goal for the World, period. And if you listen to my podcast on BBC world Service I stuck to my position that no part of Hioopcratic Oath was violated. Period. The doctor did no Harm! Period, so who looks ridiculous JohnD? Certainly not me. Fancy words like Ad Hominem will only serve to cause the 40% of the posters on Doc to Doc to take Umbrage to your direct insult of my person by calling me ridiculous. I backed up my position, and will never lay down my Honor in lieu of extraneous verbiage! By the way, Patriotism is not simple! Nor do I understand why you said "My Simple Patriotism". I am not a Pakistan National, rather I am an American, But as to patriotism, Yes I am a patriotic american, But I consider myself more of a Global Patriot, since I Love england, Australia, Germany, etc. My concern is for our Earth, not petty codes which are twisted to suit political leaders. The World can grow, and indeed will grow, hopefully Smarter in the face of Terrorism. Time will tell. DuaneF |
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Re: Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
posted at 16/2/2012 9:29 PM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 4
First: 9/10/2011 Last: 16/2/2012 |
Dr Afridi was a brave man doing this, I presume he was male, but also rather naive. I hope he will be set free safely, and if so, gets help to resume his normal life under a new identity. The US owes him this. Pakistan should do the honourable as they apparently could not bring themselves to jail BL themselves. |
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Re: Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
posted at 17/2/2012 12:33 AM GMT
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2047
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 21/5/2013 |
I shot myself in the foot. |
Forums » Off duty » News & media » Was it wrong to use medical care as a reason to track down Bin Laden?
