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Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...
posted at 6/7/2012 4:34 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1283
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
First off John D, I was not defending my countries Stance! You might need Glasses Olde Chap, I was describing my countries health care. I do not agree with it or like it! Now that we are clear on that, Medicare, Medicaid, and Workers comp, State Insurance funds, etc, all cover chronic health problems. Now as to epilsepsy, cancer etc, no one is denied health care, often a person with cancer is treated, and of course in terminal conditions often Dies with a remaining bill! The Hospital bills the patient, but the patient only has to attempt to pay, this could be $10.00 per week, etc, but healthcare is not witheld. Social security disability also covers chronic health injuries and problems, with medicaid etc. Hope this clears it up. In all Honesty John, after hearing Steves description of Scotlands system, I like it better. Since in America I pay for everyones care, while healthier, younger, uninjured Lazy people lay at home on the couch eating chips, and watching TV, all on my taxes! Not Cool. DuaneF In Response to Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...: What about Oddyseus' point on being bankrupted by healthcare, Duane? And tell us please, about people with chronic health problems, who cannot make the choice that you have, to work, because they can't? Who have lifelong drug and other costs, the rheumatoids, the epileptics, those with cerebral palsy or severe lung disease. How is their plight alleviated in the US? And as you say, US citizens with no insurance cover can get help in clinics and ERs. But who cares for those whose health needs monitoring, the hypertensives or the asthmatics? And maternity care, who provides that to the uninsured? Just to be clear, private health insurance in the UK does not cover maternity care, except for emergency care. If you wish to defend your country's stance, I think you should cover all that, at least. Then we can discuss our faults, many of which are the same as yours, overreliance on A&E care for minor, self-limiting illness, and a tenedency to not feel responsible for one's own illness. John
Posted by John D |
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Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...
posted at 6/7/2012 4:47 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1283
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Yes Rosemary, it is unequaly distributed, those who decide to work, and pay for their health care, pay for those that stay at home playing video games! DuaneF In Response to Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...: In Response to Re: The Facts About USA Health Care... : USA health care is unequally distributed and results in poor health outcomes for the marginalised poor. Barack Obama is to be congratulated on his health care reforms - it seems that he has read "The spirit level" by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett, which is about health and wealth disparities. I highly recommend this book to anyone who is interested in improving the health of the poor in their country. Posted by Rosemary |
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Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...
posted at 6/7/2012 4:51 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1283
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Surely USA health care can be improved, but here is a little fact, It is always mentioned that it is hard to find a job! I have a different take on this, It is hard to find one if your laying on the couch with a bag of chips watching TV! People need to take responsibility, govt cannot make you responsible. DuaneF In Response to Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...: In Response to The Facts About USA Health Care... : I'm surprised at the contempt that DuaneF see's the USA's poor with! Is it not a universally accepted principle that in a capitalist system the poor, and unemployed are needed, by the State/industry; in reality to keep down costs. With full employment comes better rights, better conditions, better pay, and less profit. People on the whole want to work, but getting a job in these times is difficult, particularly if you've lost your house, your job, and your confidence, through the fault of those "working" in global finance. Psychological illnesses is common in areas of high unemployment. Can this just be a coincidence? Or is it a symptom of wider social ills? Socialised medicine can intervene in this cycle it is cost effective, economically (locally and nationally) and an ethical response to poverty and social deprivation. If the US had a more socialised system, then the queues for "sniffles" may also be alleviated.
Posted by amdc101 |
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Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...
posted at 6/7/2012 10:59 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2047
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Thank you Duane, for your cool answer (!) to some heated questions. Of course I accept your assurance that there is healthcare for all, though if that is so, why the perceived need by the Democrats and the President for acute change? And the poor may not be chased for fees - as strawmen, they have nothing worth suing them for - but the young middle class, with a mortgaged house but not enough income to pay will fear foreclosure? John |
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Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...
posted at 7/7/2012 4:59 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1283
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Hey John, in answer to your query about why the Democrats and the president need acute change, here it is, your not gonna like the answer, but here goes: These people are being forced to buy health care, and the healthcare is crappy. whats next, the Govt forces us to buy Broccoli, or chocolate? I pay exorbinant premiums for my healthcare, it is good, but mind you I earned it! My job is a part of my life, and the people who Lay at home able to work, but existing like Liver Flukes, feeding off the healthy body of Workers are not being forced to either work or pay! Thus you have the American problem, in some ways we are great, but some of our people are Parasites, probably true in all countries. DuaneF In Response to Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...: Thank you Duane, for your cool answer (!) to some heated questions. Of course I accept your assurance that there is healthcare for all, though if that is so, why the perceived need by the Democrats and the President for acute change? And the poor may not be chased for fees - as strawmen, they have nothing worth suing them for - but the young middle class, with a mortgaged house but not enough income to pay will fear foreclosure? John
Posted by John D |
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Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...
posted at 7/7/2012 11:01 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 7
First: 17/11/2011 Last: 24/2/2013 |
Thanks for starting this thread Duane - from the comments above, its clear that few, if any of us in the UK have much idea of how the American healthcare system works, just as the UK media give a similar idea about what Americans know about the UK health system. This thread could help at least those of us that read it understand a little more & break some pre-conceptions. Lets all beware of terminology though - what Duane understands by a "Socialised" healthcare system may be something completely different from what us UK bods would understand by the same term. Personally, its a term I'm not familliar with (& I have a social science degree - not a medical one unlike most here), so possibly like some others, I'd assume it meant some sort of Stalinist system where the availability of all treatments is decided by some faceless bureaucrat and paid for via national taxation. Depending on your point of view, I guess this could be said to be true of the UK system - personally I'd say not. We often hear scare stories in the media about how people in the USA are denied healthcare because they can't pay for it, but from what you're saying, this doesn't happen? The systems you mention like Medicare & Medicaid never get described in detail in the UK, to me at least they're just fairly meaningless terms - so any information you can provide would be grand. Personally, I don't understand when the UK media states that x million Americans have no health insurance & that's a bad thing, with many Americans protesting about it - it gives the impression that these people have no healthcare & Obama's trying to do something about it. But from what you're saying, the media's misrepesenting the facts - is this true? My personal view is that healthcare shouldn't be based on making a profit - not sure if that makes me a socialist, communist, or just anti-capitalist - but I think there's just too much pressure to cut costs for the model to work for patients - but if you work in that sort of model & can let us know it works - that would be good. As far as the people without jobs are concerned - that immediately put me in mind of something my old economics teacher once said. Every society has a pool of labour, and there's no way that all of them can be in work. Besides those physically unable to work for whatever reason, there's also a need to have unemployed people to fill the jobs that are created (if & when that happens) - supply & demand - if there's no supply of labour available, the cost (demand) is too high to employ them. We need cheap (unemployed, on low benefits) labour available to keep a healthy free market. Now, as for the size of that pool of cheap labour & how to control its size & cheapness - that's a whole debate in itself. Dave.
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Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...
posted at 7/7/2012 4:40 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1266
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Hi Dave - I have family in the US and I have worked in the US (briefly) and researched the US primary care system (extensively) and written two papers about it. The reality is, in primary care at least, many communities are denied access to a primary care physician and, instead, have to rely on things like extended role emergency medicine technicians/paramedics, nurse practitioners or physician assistants. Medicare and Medicaid do not fund everything. Many Americans are under-insured, often through no fault of their own and if you don't believe me look at this article from USNews (all be it a little out of date): http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/articles/2008/06/10/25-million-americans-are-underinsured It states in its first paragraphs: The number of American adults who had inadequate health insurance to cover their medical expenses rose 60 percent from 2003 to 2007, from 16 million to more than 25 million people. Hardest hit were families with middle and higher incomes, those whose income was 200 percent above the federal poverty level or those with an annual income of $40,000 or more, a new report by The Commonwealth Fund found. "Insurance coverage is the ticket into the health-care system," Karen Davis, president of The Commonwealth Fund, said during a Monday teleconference. "For too many, that ticket does not buy financial security or genuine access to care" |
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Re: The Facts About USA Health Care...
posted at 7/7/2012 4:56 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1283
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Dashbey,Thanks for the opinion on the thread. So for an explanation, Skysteve did outline some issues, and I too go to urgent care facilities when sick for minor things, like a sinus infection, stitches when i cut myself, I see PA's and Nurse practicioners too, so this is not limited to the uninsured, even those of us that pay hundreds of dollars monthly must see a PA or other allied Health provider at clinics, sometimes my Doctor has no appts availaible on a certain day so I must go elsewhere. In any event, here is definition, Medicare is for elderly, it is subsidized by our tax money we pay every check, just like social security, Each check I pay Social Security Taxes, Federal Taxes, State Taxes, Medicare taxes, Union Dues, Health care premiums! Even after the Boston Tea Party we still get soaked for taxes, but this time from our own country, Makes you wonder what we are independent from huh? Medicaid is for disabled, physically and or mentally disabled. Workers Comp covers workplace injuries, and state insurance funds pay for expenses related to comp injuries. I hope this helps. Yes steve is right many americans are underinsured, but the only fix is to go to a system like his country, Scotland, Obamacare only makes you buy insurance, which still leaves you uninsured, and the law does not even take effect yet, it will be repealed if we get a republican president. We do need a better system. DuaneF |
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