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Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
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Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
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Whilst this is not a medical topic it is nevertheless interesting. Link to report of Judgement:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdEnHy9maiI Former US president George Bush and his former counter
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Forums  »  Off duty  »  News & media  »  Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 1:32 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 2947
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 29/4/2013

My comments are not meant to be inimical to the US citizenry but in respect to the behaviour of past administrations. My country too has conducted itself in ways that I do not respect. It has also done some noble things. The USA has been our allies since Pearl Harbour. We may be seen as vassals but I see ourselves more as tributaries; city states connected to larger city states. Pragmatism is one ally. The sharing of common ideals, language and traditions are more enduring.

Citizens are mere  leaves swept along in a gutter after a thunderstorm. However, sooner or later the leaves pile up and block the grate and the water wells up and covers the road. It is then that the sun comes out and the birds sing again.

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 4:10 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 2947
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 29/4/2013
I observe that many a terrorist becomes many a prime minister or president. History is full of them.

Terrorist is the term used by the power structure controlling the media. For example, once we called Version 1 of the Taliban, " Mujahideen Freedom Fighters" using CIA-supplied Stinger missiles against evil Russian/Commie invaders' helicopters.

The mass media thus learns the script even when we are not officially at war. "The war on terror" is another hackneyed phrase which is a sort of implicit credo; a mantra which shows all which end of the egg you crack yours.

We did the same in "Nam where we killed then mutilated the bodies as "gooks", "charlie" etc who became so dehumanised until we saw some kid with no clothes on running down a dirt lane, a human torch courtesy of napalm and the US petrochemical industry.

The greatest crime of war is that we the TV viewers are duplicit it this.

We soak up the clichés, year after year,  recite the same Nuremberg mantras with our political prayer wheels and inhale the heady smoke of burning flesh with hickory-flavoured napalm until we become like the Deer Hunter and just tire of it all.
 
Let's change channel as there is nothing new on the War on Terror and Channel 2 has a replay on the War on Drugs which we are winning too as our politicians said do as they don't know where Portugal is and don't really care and anyway, the opium is helping our boys stay sane and the Afghan farmers happy.

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 4:59 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1280
First: 9/12/2011
Last: 14/5/2013
Very Good Odysseus,   But you missed the point, this is a post about Bush and War crimes,  he was not president when Vietnam was in motion.   Oh Yeah,  I forgot,  this is just your BASH AMERICA Verbiage,  not a post of real substance!     What does vietnam have to do with Bush?  DuaneF

In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes:
One might go further with crimes against humanity. The US dropped 2 million tons of bombs on neutral Laos. It engaged in similar cover bombing of neutral Cambodia. These countries are littered with unxploded ordnance and these actions eventually led to the mass genocide of Cambodia which was finally stopped not by US but their staunch enemies the Vietnamese communists. By reading history and not listening to our politicians there might just be fewer wars. As for "World's Policeman", not on  my beat thank you.
Posted by Odysseus

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 5:03 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1280
First: 9/12/2011
Last: 14/5/2013
So Tim,   you speak of Torture,  where is your proof of this Torture?   were you present at Abu-Grahib,  or Guantonomo,  or anywhere else?   Provide Proof!     Not hearsay!   DuaneF


In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes:
The law is the Geneva Convention which means they should not be tortured, held in stress positions, interrogated... Article III Of the 3rd Convention is the only article of the Geneva Conventions that applies in non-international conflicts. It describes minimal protections which must be adhered to by all individuals within a signatory's territory during an armed conflict not of an international character (regardless of citizenship or lack thereof): Noncombatants, combatants who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely , including prohibition of outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment . The passing of sentences must also be pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples . Article 3's protections exist even if one is not classified as a prisoner of war . Article 3 also states that parties to the internal conflict should endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of GCIII. The reason we write laws in civilised societies is so that there is a consistent basis of fairness on which decisions can be made. To decide to ignore the rules when they are a bit inconvenient is therefore a mark of an uncivilised society. To fail to work by the rules because you say the other side will not obey them is also wrong because it will mean that in the future other people will not obey the rules because they were broken with impunity in the past. This means that creating the 'illegal combatants' category was wrong. The fact that this was done breached the convention. The fact that your Government allowed this is an embarrassment to the free world. It could mean that we should not consider the US to be a civilised country. The fact that your Government allowed torture is an embarrassment to the free world. The fact that your Government allowed Guantanamo to happen, and to continue is an embarrassment to the free world. On that basis alone Bush IS a War Criminal . And Obama is an accessory after the fact.
Posted by TimReynolds

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 5:47 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 2947
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 29/4/2013
There were many bushes in Vietnam, not many in Iraq (two), quite a few in Afghanistan albeit stunted and  there was one Burning Bush in the desert once but we lost that message and anyhow two bushes don't make a right and does tomatoes have an one "e"  or two??
 
I suppose an egg tomata has one but two egg tomatoes has two except when you have one egg tomatoe which makes two, if you arl get ma drift. We are lucky there are no egg potatoes here in Texas as this really would complicate these  dang calculashuns.On the other hand one Texas sized egg tomatoe and one egg potatoe would shure as hell make one  great fritata.

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 8:32 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 321
First: 12/11/2010
Last: 8/5/2013
In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes:
So Tim,   you speak of Torture,  where is your proof of this Torture?   were you present at Abu-Grahib,  or Guantonomo,  or anywhere else?   Provide Proof!     Not hearsay!   DuaneF In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes :
Posted by DuaneF


Clearly, having not been allowed into Guantanamo I cannot provide personally-witnessed proof, but neither can you prove that torture has not occurred. However, taking into account International definitions of torture:

 

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/69mjxc.htm;

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/torture/law/definitions.shtml;

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1505073/How-the-law-and-UN-define-torture.html;

 

the Geneva Convention rights previously described, and the right to regular camp inspections by the ICRC [which the US Government denied at Guantanamo, but which even Hitler did not deny to Allied prisoners in World War II], there is a wealth of evidence that torture was committed in Guantanamo Bay. A few links are posted below, including examples of the US Justice department arguing that torture-based evidence from Guantanamo is legally valid [which seems to be quite an admission of guilt to me].

 

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.1001027

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/04/guantanamo-bay-torture

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-doctors-hid-signs-of-torture-at-guantanamo-2275214.html

 

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/guan-m30.shtml

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110426151037.htm

 

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-06-18/us/gitmo.detainees_1_detainees-torture-and-ill-treatment-abu-ghraib?_s=PM:US

 

http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/issues/torture/

 

http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/issues/torture/us-torture/

 

https://theshalomcenter.org/content/justice-dept-says-torture-based-evidence-guantanamo-legitimate

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009011303372.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3402073/Judge-asks-media-whether-to-release-Guantanamo-Bay-torture-evidence.html

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/04/government-secret-evidence-guantanamo-torture

 

I could go on, but that should be enough for starters. Furthermore, there is proof that internment in Guantanamo was based on farcical evidence,

 

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/47461

  

Therefore, I think it should be obvious why the Free World condemns US actions, believes Shrub to be a war criminal, and finds the US to be an embarrassment. Worse than that, the actions of the US in ignoring the Geneva Conventions means that in future conflicts ‘the other side’ will happily also ignore the conventions and if asked to explain why in War Crimes Tribunals will simply say that they did not apply the rules because their opponents did not apply them either. By opening Pandora’s box, the US will have made treatment of future prisoners far worse.

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 12:46 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 2947
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 29/4/2013
Look, I think that you two should just kiss and make up. Duane has proved beyond any doubt that there is no doubt and Tim has proven that Bill and Ben, The Flower Pot Men were guilty of crimes against aphids and garden compost.

At times we just  have to be gracious. I have tried to be the intermediary here, coming in with some objective facts of history as written by America and its allies and not by Germany, the Sudetenland or the Baltic States, not to mention Joseph Stalin and the Beach Boys.

Yes, Tony got it wrong a few times and so what if a few mlllion Iraqis died for truth, freedom and faster than speeding 50 cal. It is all over now and we won and the oil wells are pumping again... ah yes that sound of those machines rhythmically slurping up black gold, Texas T and the old life of the Beverely Hill Billies again. Sheik man, sheik, this is rhythm man. Hotter than the DMZ, Hannoi Hannah and chillie con carne.

As for the Dyslexic One, George Bubbya, may his name be enscribed immortal on the Column of Hammurabi, as the Mighty One who left his footprint, yes Bigfoot in the Sands of Babylon and left his syncopated Morse Code of his tongue  for all to fathom....

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 1:08 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 321
First: 12/11/2010
Last: 8/5/2013
In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes:
Look, I think that you two should just kiss and make up. Duane has proved beyond any doubt that there is no doubt and Tim has proven that Bill and Ben, The Flower Pot Men were guilty of crimes against aphids and garden compost. At times we just  have to be gracious. I have tried to be the intermediary here, coming in with some objective facts of history as written by America and its allies and not by Germany, the Sudetenland or the Baltic States, not to mention Joseph Stalin and the Beach Boys. Yes, Tony got it wrong a few times and so what if a few mlllion Iraqis died for truth, freedom and faster than speeding 50 cal. It is all over now and we won and the oil wells are pumping again... ah yes that sound of those machines rhythmically slurping up black gold, Texas T and the old life of the Beverely Hill Billies again. Sheik man, sheik, this is rhythm man. Hotter than the DMZ, Hannoi Hannah and chillie con carne. As for the Dyslexic One, George Bubbya, may his name be enscribed immortal on the Column of Hammurabi, as the Mighty One who left his footprint, yes Bigfoot in the Sands of Babylon and left his syncopated Morse Code of his tongue  for all to fathom....
Posted by Odysseus



What can I say but:     Cool

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 1:41 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 223
First: 15/5/2012
Last: 29/4/2013
In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes:
In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes : What can I say but:    
Posted by TimReynolds


Tim:

Can you supply your coordinates, we can forward it to CENTCOM. You can expect a missile tonight.

Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes

posted at 16/7/2012 1:49 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 223
First: 15/5/2012
Last: 29/4/2013
In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes:
In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes :  Ouch! Did my previous commetns hurt you? Looks like you don't have an answer to the questions raised and hence the abusive language. I would advice you to take your eyes off your idiot box and try  sources of  information other than Fox news, CNN and CBS. Where should i start ? If we are such an insignificant speck in this universe why were your politicians and Military begging us to re-open the NATO supply routes for the last eight months? Why do you ask us to be part of every International Conference on Afghanistan?   Wasn't ISI your best buddy during the Afghan War for 10 years? Why this change of heart now? Oh was it because ISI has started identifying your crook CIA operatives in Pakistan like Raymond Davis and Traitors like Shakeel Afridi. As for OBL, We all are also releived that he is no longer here but he WAS Americas creation to begin with. Go and see Michael Moore's "Farenheit 9/11"" which shows meeting between the War criminal Dick Cheney and OBL in 1980's. As for the Nuclear Bomb comment, i know it hurts to see a Musim country acquire the nuclear technology, specially when your ALL POWERFUL US president Bill Clinton rang up Pakistani Primeminister Nawaz FIVE TIMES and asked him not to go ahead with the detonations. And guess what he said? Buzz off Yankee. This is our country and we know how to run it. Read  Odysseus  comments . You have NO right to be global peace keeper and are no longer incharge now, especially with a 14 Trillion dollars  debt , slow economy and ever increasing burden of veterans of two illegal wars. 
Posted by drrathore


Which "Madrassa" did you attend to learn and keep so much hatred in your heart. I will pray for you. Thank you for hiding OsamaBin Laden, and all the other terrorists that you have now.

I will heed your advise and will listen to Radio Pakistan and see Al Zazzera only. Unlike you, I will never learn to hate.

Shame on me for the audacity to watch any of 1008 channels we have on TV. Shame on me for being free.

Shame on my country to care about others, be religiously tolerant and think about peace, liberty and injustice.
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