Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
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Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
Debate current medical affairs
Whilst this is not a medical topic it is nevertheless interesting. Link to report of Judgement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdEnHy9maiI Former US president George Bush and his former counter
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Forums » Off duty » News & media » Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 14/7/2012 5:01 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1285
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 22/5/2013 |
Tim, Lets see, the US Army and Marines etc were shot at by these Terrorists, using Ak-47 assault rifles, and then these same cowards had to surrender while being overrun by our Marines, so you call them Innocent! I hope you practice medicine better than you practice Law! Yes, I say deliver all the Terrorists to Tims house, for a Great Hug session, and he can hold hands with them, and sing "We are the World". DuaneF In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes: In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes : Unless you give them a proper trial you cannot prove they are terrorists. The cornerstone of law is that you are Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Posted by TimReynolds |
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 14/7/2012 5:18 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 322
First: 12/11/2010 Last: 20/5/2013 |
In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes: Tim, Lets see, the US Army and Marines etc were shot at by these Terrorists, using Ak-47 assault rifles, and then these same cowards had to surrender while being overrun by our Marines, so you call them Innocent! I hope you practice medicine better than you practice Law! Yes, I say deliver all the Terrorists to Tims house, for a Great Hug session, and he can hold hands with them, and sing "We are the World". DuaneF In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes : Posted by DuaneF There is plenty of evidence many of the inmates in Guantamo were totally innocent - and should not have been detained. As one example - an Irish report on a New York Times article [so even the US media believes the Guantamo inmates are innocent...]: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0425/guantanamo.html The US held hundreds of inmates who were either totally innocent or low-risk for years and released dozens of high-risk Guantanamo inmates, according to newly leaked classified files. The new leaks reveal that inmates were held without trial on the basis of often seriously flawed information, such as from mentally ill or otherwise unreliable co-detainees or statements from suspects who had been abused or tortured, The New York Times reported. The New York Times was among a group of US and European media outlets that also included The Daily Telegraph, NPR, El Pais, Le Monde, Der Spiegel and La Repubblica to receive 779 documents from the whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks. At least 150 Guantanamo detainees were innocent Afghans or Pakistanis, including drivers, farmers and chefs, according to the Telegraph. They were rounded up as part of frantic intelligence-gathering in war zones and then detained at the US naval base in southeastern Cuba for years due to mistaken identity or simply for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. It said that overall, US military analysts considered only 220 of all the suspects in the George W Bush-era 'war on terror' ever detained at Guantanamo to be dangerous extremists. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And this error was compounded by the creation of a new legal entity - the unlawful combatant - to give Bush the ability to torture them, instead of treatimg them as Prisoners of War, with legal rights as agreed in International law under the Geneva Conventions... |
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 15/7/2012 5:14 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1285
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 22/5/2013 |
Lets see Tim, Perhaps you should brush up on the Law concerning enemy combatants. They are owed no Trial, and in fact can be held indefinately! They should of course be granted a Military Tribunal, but I often question the issue of why take prisoners anyway. If your shooting at our troops, just shoot back, and shoot to kill. I know you would prefer to Hug the Terrorists, Just until they kill a member of your family or friends, then your mood might change. DuaneF In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes: In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes : There is plenty of evidence many of the inmates in Guantamo were totally innocent - and should not have been detained. As one example - an Irish report on a New York Times article [so even the US media believes the Guantamo inmates are innocent...]: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0425/guantanamo.html The US held hundreds of inmates who were either totally innocent or low-risk for years and released dozens of high-risk Guantanamo inmates, according to newly leaked classified files. The new leaks reveal that inmates were held without trial on the basis of often seriously flawed information, such as from mentally ill or otherwise unreliable co-detainees or statements from suspects who had been abused or tortured, The New York Times reported. The New York Times was among a group of US and European media outlets that also included The Daily Telegraph, NPR, El Pais, Le Monde, Der Spiegel and La Repubblica to receive 779 documents from the whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks. At least 150 Guantanamo detainees were innocent Afghans or Pakistanis, including drivers, farmers and chefs, according to the Telegraph. They were rounded up as part of frantic intelligence-gathering in war zones and then detained at the US naval base in southeastern Cuba for years due to mistaken identity or simply for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. It said that overall, US military analysts considered only 220 of all the suspects in the George W Bush-era 'war on terror' ever detained at Guantanamo to be dangerous extremists. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And this error was compounded by the creation of a new legal entity - the unlawful combatant - to give Bush the ability to torture them, instead of treatimg them as Prisoners of War, with legal rights as agreed in International law under the Geneva Conventions...
Posted by TimReynolds |
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 15/7/2012 8:28 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 15/7/2012 10:48 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2948
First: 10/3/2009 Last: 23/5/2013 |
In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes: In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes : And proud of it. As they say Uncle Sam is the peace keeper. Do you want innocents to be killed in Syria, the Middle East. Do you want to turn a blind eye to the genocide in Africa. Open your eyes and widen your belief system, Read about the world. We the tax payer do not want the US to intervene abroad, as it is our tax dollars, but what is the alternative. Do you want terrorist to run amok ( they already do in Pakistan and Afghanistan). Do you want the killings to continue?. What if your son was killed by a terrorist?. Our country was founded on the principles of democracy, equality and tolerance. None of the these mean anything anymore. It is more about religious fanatism, choas and anarchy. What about human rights and dignity?. We do not like war as much as the next guy and want our troops to come home safe. Posted by Happy What gives the US the right to be the world's peace keeper. If China or India intervened the way the USA did I can imagine the reaction. The USA was not a signitory to the League of Nations (Australia was) and as result it failed. It remained isolationist while NAZISM invaded Czechoslavakia and well after the fall of Poland, France, Norway, Denmark, the Baltic States, Holland, Belgium, Greece, the Balkans and most of European Russia. We declared war on NAZI Germany the same day Britain did. It remained silent during the mass genocide of Ruwanda (We were there) and invaded Iraq against the advice of the UN advisors including Hans Blix. Our government was advised against this and a large number of military heads of staff signed against this. We followed. Robert McNamara on a recent hour long interview about his life advised several US presidents to pull out of Vietnam as early as 1965 when the US had only 12,000 advisors there. We followed the USA there as one of the few countries. Our men still pay the price. I see them daily. Does the cannon size still give ligitimacy to diplomacy as has occurred since the beginning of the colonial era with the voyages of Vasco Da Gama? I think that the world in general if I read this site accurately, believes that a new paradigm is needed and that the tattered notion of the US having the intrinsic inheritance as the world's peace keeper is wearing a bit thin. The inconsistencies are too apparent to most who have eyes. Indeed, it was one notable visionary from Illinois who said that you can fool some of the people some of the time and all the people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all the time (paraphrase so don't quote me). However, even before his time the US expansion had commenced with the Mexican Wars, etc etc lest I bore you with history. I therefore take some exception to the notion that the US is the world's peace keeper. I read history and know history. I also think as we live in a post-WW2 age, the notion of Uncle Sam is about as outmoded as the bishop's crook in the Catholic Church which has been the world's Peace Maker unless you are a young boy with your pants down. P.S. History is written by victors. Yes, perhaps. However Cicero says "Historia vero testis temporum, lux veritas" or to paraphrase, posterity will figure it out. As educated men and women, we are given this gift to work it out and not to just accept the hype of George Bush, Tony Blair, Richard Nixon or LBJ or for that matter the rallies of Nuremberg or the waved paper of " Peace in our time". . History has the last say...eventually for men and women of good will and sound mind. The truth is a tombstone but few lay flowers on it. |
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 15/7/2012 4:22 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 311
First: 7/5/2009 Last: 2/4/2013 |
In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes: Pakistan was forged out of duplicity, lies and trickery. Jinnah backstabbing Gandhi and Nehru. It was forged out of the blood of partition of pertition of 1947. The apple does not fall far from the tree. Big talk is meaningless- Pakistan does not even grow its own potatoes it is imported from India. Nuclear secrets bought from North Korea ( A.Q. Khan is your hero?) Hiding Bin Laden in Abbotabad. And now Zardari starts begging from China. Where is the pride- sorry I misspoke- you have terrorism and the shadowy ISI, AND VERY PROUD OF IT. We may have our problems in the US but we are FREE. Posted by Happy Ouch! Did my previous commetns hurt you? Looks like you don't have an answer to the questions raised and hence the abusive language. I would advice you to take your eyes off your idiot box and try sources of information other than Fox news, CNN and CBS. Where should i start ? If we are such an insignificant speck in this universe why were your politicians and Military begging us to re-open the NATO supply routes for the last eight months? Why do you ask us to be part of every International Conference on Afghanistan? Wasn't ISI your best buddy during the Afghan War for 10 years? Why this change of heart now? Oh was it because ISI has started identifying your crook CIA operatives in Pakistan like Raymond Davis and Traitors like Shakeel Afridi. As for OBL, We all are also releived that he is no longer here but he WAS Americas creation to begin with. Go and see Michael Moore's "Farenheit 9/11"" which shows meeting between the War criminal Dick Cheney and OBL in 1980's. As for the Nuclear Bomb comment, i know it hurts to see a Musim country acquire the nuclear technology, specially when your ALL POWERFUL US president Bill Clinton rang up Pakistani Primeminister Nawaz FIVE TIMES and asked him not to go ahead with the detonations. And guess what he said? Buzz off Yankee. This is our country and we know how to run it. Read Odysseus comments . You have NO right to be global peace keeper and are no longer incharge now, especially with a 14 Trillion dollars debt , slow economy and ever increasing burden of veterans of two illegal wars.
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 15/7/2012 5:29 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1285
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 22/5/2013 |
Tim, In response to your repost, first off, I do care whether you consider the USA to be civilized or not! I care not whether you care or not, nor do I care what you and your country do. Nor should you care what I do, for herein lies the wisdom you lack, I am not my country, I am a single american, insignificant in the greater scheme of politics, and not even well versed in political events. All I know and do is what I trained for, I have upheld the Law as a Police Officer for 32 years, now I consultant in the CBRN field, and attempt to teach, Firefighters, Police, and Doctors about CBRN dangers and Intervention measures. I am a Subject Matter Expert in my field, Not in Politics! Nor would I want to be. So whether the USA has violated anything is open to opinion, you have yours I have mine. I am comfortable in my skin, and with my opinion. be comfortable with yours! DuaneF In Response to Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes: The law is the Geneva Convention which means they should not be tortured, held in stress positions, interrogated... Article III Of the 3rd Convention is the only article of the Geneva Conventions that applies in non-international conflicts. It describes minimal protections which must be adhered to by all individuals within a signatory's territory during an armed conflict not of an international character (regardless of citizenship or lack thereof): Noncombatants, combatants who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely , including prohibition of outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment . The passing of sentences must also be pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples . Article 3's protections exist even if one is not classified as a prisoner of war . Article 3 also states that parties to the internal conflict should endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of GCIII. The reason we write laws in civilised societies is so that there is a consistent basis of fairness on which decisions can be made. To decide to ignore the rules when they are a bit inconvenient is therefore a mark of an uncivilised society. To fail to work by the rules because you say the other side will not obey them is also wrong because it will mean that in the future other people will not obey the rules because they were broken with impunity in the past. This means that creating the 'illegal combatants' category was wrong. The fact that this was done breached the convention. The fact that your Government allowed this is an embarrassment to the free world. It could mean that we should not consider the US to be a civilised country. The fact that your Government allowed torture is an embarrassment to the free world. The fact that your Government allowed Guantanamo to happen, and to continue is an embarrassment to the free world. On that basis alone Bush IS a War Criminal . And Obama is an accessory after the fact. Posted by TimReynolds |
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 15/7/2012 9:53 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2948
First: 10/3/2009 Last: 23/5/2013 |
One might go further with crimes against humanity. The US dropped 2 million tons of bombs on neutral Laos. It engaged in similar cover bombing of neutral Cambodia. These countries are littered with unxploded ordnance and these actions eventually led to the mass genocide of Cambodia which was finally stopped not by US but their staunch enemies the Vietnamese communists. By reading history and not listening to our politicians there might just be fewer wars. As for "World's Policeman", not on my beat thank you. |
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 15/7/2012 11:08 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 579
First: 8/6/2011 Last: 22/5/2013 |
Observing so many wars and so many atrocities some times i am thinking that may be we were hasty to call our species ' human kind . Maybe we are still somewhere betwine monkeys and hummans ( as we mean hummans today ) ... Maybe we are still animales. Or maybe better we have to evolve more and after many-many years to have the possibility to call our selves humans. Or somepeople prefer to degrate us to the status of animmals... |
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Re: Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
posted at 16/7/2012 12:07 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 579
First: 8/6/2011 Last: 22/5/2013 |
Now because i know that my friend Odysseus like the Greek poets ' i will post you an old Greek song which is getting updated .The ballad of mr Mentios. ( mr Mentios is a donkey ) There is the video of the song and the translation in English . So i dedicate it to all the donkeys of the word !... Have a nice fun ! http://lyricstranslate.com/en/i-mpalanta-tou-kyr-mentiou-i-mpalanta-toy-kyr-mentioy-ballad-mr-medios.html |
Forums » Off duty » News & media » Bush and Blair accused of War Crimes
