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Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?
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Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?
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The other day it was decided that Gary McKinnon would not be extradited to the US to face charges of hacking the Pentagon’s security – on the grounds that he has mental health problems. M
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Forums » Off duty » News & media » Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

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Forums  »  Off duty  »  News & media  »  Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

posted at 18/10/2012 9:43 AM BST on bmj.com
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The other day it was decided that Gary McKinnon would not be extradited to the US to face charges of hacking the Pentagon’s security – on the grounds that he has mental health problems.

Mr McKinnon claims he was a looking for evidence for UFOs and has spent the past decade fighting extradition. Teresa May, the Home Secretary said:

"Mr McKinnon is accused of serious crimes. But there is also no doubt that he is seriously ill.

"He has Asperger's syndrome, and suffers from depressive illness. The legal question before me is now whether the extent of that illness is sufficient to preclude extradition.

"After careful consideration of all of the relevant material, I have concluded that Mr McKinnon's extradition would give rise to such a high risk of him ending his life that a decision to extradite would be incompatible with Mr McKinnon's human rights.”

However, there is the case of Talha Ahsan who has been held in a British prison for the last six years on the request of the US who want to prosecute him for running a pro-Islamist website. There is apparently scant evidence available and Ahsan also has Aspergers. The link to the blog below suggests that when juxtaposed with the McKinnon case that this reflects a double standard  with regard to Muslim suspects. On the face of it, if McKinnon has been given a pardon because of his aspergers – why can’t Ahsan? http://hurryupharry.org/2012/10/18/gary-mckinnon-and-talha-ahsan/

In the BBC story American lawyer, David Rivkin, a former White House adviser, said the decision was "laughable", adding, "Under that logic, anybody who claims some kind of physical or mental problem can commit crimes with impunity and get away with it."

But if extradited would either McKinnon or Ahsan expect to receive a fair trial? Their political beliefs are different to the US’s views but does this really make them criminals?  

Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

posted at 18/10/2012 10:05 AM BST on bmj.com
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How, without access to all the relevant medical records, can anyone make any reasoned comment here? Sorry Matthew but without such access (which we will never get - and quite rightly so) it's a pointless discussion.

As for "crimes" Mr MacKinnon hacked into US defense computers and, regardless of his reasons for doing so (searching for UFO information), that is a crime. No-one has said that his lack of extradition to the US means he is not guilty of a crime. indeed, Theresa may went out of her way to say he will continue to be invstigated by UK police to see if he should face any charges here.

Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

posted at 18/10/2012 12:45 PM BST on bmj.com
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Hi Skyesteve

I know it is kind of an impossible question to answer but I suppose what I was thinking about was whether the US would have given him a fair trial or not. He has been saved from the US trial but might go to court in the UK - does this imply  that the US would not have given him a fair trial? Would they have taken into account his aspergers or depression when sentencing?

Also, if McKinnon's aspergers has been taken into account, why hasn't Ahsan's? On the face of it, it looks like his offense is less serious but his mental health has not been considered by the authorities.

Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

posted at 18/10/2012 1:14 PM BST on bmj.com
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We can never know. The news media says that Mackinnon has mild Asperger's and therefore if it is only mild you could question whether blocking the extradition was right. Overall, it was probably not right on the grpounds of mental health because dodgy lawyers will now be getting diagnoses of non-syndromes: Some people have suggested that Asperger's syndrome is really just a way of describing a male [odd interests, able to fixate on pointless things like football, and poor social interaction].

However, it has already been stated in the media that the US could demand the death penalty [because embarrassing the pentagon by proving it's security is rubbish is highly subversive], although it was later suggested that they might only ask for 10 years and a ludicrously high fine (which it would be impossible to pay if locked up in prison with no way of earning - no release if the fine + interest have not been paid). So, the human rights of receiving a reasonable punishment rather than an excessively harsh exemplary punishment would have been a better reason to refuse extradition.

Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

posted at 18/10/2012 1:59 PM BST on bmj.com
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Last: 18/10/2012
Well, there are also strong fears that he may commit suicide if extradited to the States.
Similar conditions have so delayed the extradition of Shrien Dewani whose wife was murdered on their honeymoon in South Africa. He is still being cared for in a mental unit in the UK until he is better clinically. 
In Gary McKinnon's case, I do not think anyone is saying he is not guilty due to his mild Asperger's, but that his suicidal intent is too strong to extradite him to a country which is typically very heavy-handed when dealing with such cases. He has commited an offence and will still be investigated. Again, unfortunately, the media are guilty of completely blurring and mixing up the two issues and confusing the public.

Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

posted at 18/10/2012 5:06 PM BST on bmj.com
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In All Honesty Tim,   I doubt he would face the death penalty!    Not probable at all.   Also as a side note,  how can you classify the pentagons security as rubbish?   Do you program security Algorithims for the Pentagon?   I thought not!   All computer systems have security flaws,  and usually people with Computer engineering degrees asess them,  not MD's.   DuaneF


In Response to Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?:
We can never know. The news media says that Mackinnon has mild Asperger's and therefore if it is only mild you could question whether blocking the extradition was right. Overall, it was probably not right on the grpounds of mental health because dodgy lawyers will now be getting diagnoses of non-syndromes: Some people have suggested that Asperger's syndrome is really just a way of describing a male [odd interests, able to fixate on pointless things like football, and poor social interaction]. However, it has already been stated in the media that the US could demand the death penalty [because embarrassing the pentagon by proving it's security is rubbish is highly subversive], although it was later suggested that they might only ask for 10 years and a ludicrously high fine (which it would be impossible to pay if locked up in prison with no way of earning - no release if the fine + interest have not been paid). So, the human rights of receiving a reasonable punishment rather than an excessively harsh exemplary punishment would have been a better reason to refuse extradition.
Posted by TimReynolds

Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

posted at 18/10/2012 5:36 PM BST on bmj.com
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In Response to Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?:
In All Honesty Tim,   I doubt he would face the death penalty!    Not probable at all.   Also as a side note,  how can you classify the pentagons security as rubbish?   Do you program security Algorithims for the Pentagon?   I thought not!   All computer systems have security flaws,  and usually people with Computer engineering degrees asess them,  not MD's.   DuaneF In Response to Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds? :
Posted by DuaneF


If someone can hack into 97 computers over 13 months, and is prepared to leave messages saying 'Your computer security is crap' in the middle of that period; And after being told that their security was crap, the loopholes were still not closed for a further 6 months, I think it is quite legitimate to conclude that the pentagon's computer security is crap!

Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

posted at 18/10/2012 6:15 PM BST on bmj.com
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First: 9/12/2011
Last: 24/5/2013
Well Tim,   Not true!    Here is the deal,   Most large systems of a secure nature have multiple redundant systems to assure security.   I cannot discuss exact security for national security reasons,  but suffice to say, most DOD systems like Banks etc, have Honeypots attached,  simply put they have large amounts of subsystems allow hacking,  to a certain extent,  and detract from the bigger more secure systems being invaded.   This guy did not get into any real serious systems,  or trust me, he would be brought back to the US by any means necessary!    I understand your point,  but there are many separate systems in order to assure security.     Kind regards,    DuaneF,   As a side note, in the interest of ensuring that we  do  not get into one of our normal arguments,  I am just bringing you up to date on the info,  not debating or arguing,  I hope we can converse on more friendly terms.   Smile  DuaneF

Re: Was it right for Gary McKinnon's extradition to be blocked on medical grounds?

posted at 18/10/2012 6:24 PM BST on bmj.com
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First: 12/11/2010
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But on several ocassions he deleted stuff that crippled systems - closing down the entire Washington miltary district network for 24 hours and disrupting weapons delivery to the US Navy Atlantic fleet - A bit more than honey pots.

Of course McKinnon was stupid too - if you are going to do that kind of thing you should only do it using a clean (hacking) PC, containing no personal information, running a use-once pay as you go internet dongle; and working in public places such as a library a long way from home, and certainly not on a fixed line internet connection at your girlfriend's flat...

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