Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
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Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
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I don't know what it is about the Italian courts at the moment, but it's all kicking off! Firstly, we had a post about the ruling by an Italian court that this is a causal link between mobile phones a
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Forums » Off duty » News & media » Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
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Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
posted at 23/10/2012 9:47 AM BST
on bmj.com
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*Moderator*
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First: 7/4/2011 Last: 19/6/2013 |
I don't know what it is about the Italian courts at the moment, but it's all kicking off! Firstly, we had a post about the ruling by an Italian court that this is a causal link between mobile phones and cancer: Do you think that mobile phones cause cancer? Then we had skyesteve's post about scientists who were jailed in Italy for communicating the wrong type of risk about an earthquake Communicating risk can land you in jail... And now in a new chapter in the MMR-autism story, an Italian court is presiding over a case brought by parents of a child who had the MMR jab and said that their son changed after he had the vaccine. (Presumably that it gave him autism?) Luca Ventaloro the family lawyer, said "It is wrong for governments and their health authorities to exert strong pressure on parents to take children for the MMR jab while ignoring that this vaccine can cause autism and linked conditions.” I am not sure what evidence they are going to present but is going to have to be better than anecdotal... http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/italian-court-reignites-mmr-vaccine-debate-after-award-over-child-with-autism-7858596.html |
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Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
posted at 23/10/2012 3:20 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 10
First: 10/8/2012 Last: 22/1/2013 |
Well, despite the British government 'forcing' the MMR injection down the necks of parents, this is not the only case where a child has been given the MMR and become autistic... I don't care what the argument about it... I will always say this, why would a doctor lie about something so important and why should he have been struck off if he was lying...The british government are guilty of gross misconduct and one day it will be proved inconclusively . JUST HOPE THE DAY COMES SOONER THAN LATER. |
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Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
posted at 23/10/2012 5:44 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 332
First: 12/11/2010 Last: 19/6/2013 |
The italian courts are probably getting in practice ahead of the Berlusconi Bunga-bunga verdict. After a long series of weird decisions, no one will be surprised when he gets acquitted... |
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Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
posted at 24/10/2012 5:47 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 5
First: 25/5/2012 Last: 2/5/2013 |
In Response to Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?: Well, despite the British government 'forcing' the MMR injection down the necks of parents, this is not the only case where a child has been given the MMR and become autistic... I don't care what the argument about it... I will always say this, why would a doctor lie about something so important and why should he have been struck off if he was lying...The british government are guilty of gross misconduct and one day it will be proved inconclusively . JUST HOPE THE DAY COMES SOONER THAN LATER. Posted by gina It is unfortunate that some doctors still believe this myth, and have not noticed that the Lancet retracted this article and apologised. There is overwhelming evidence based on hundreds of thousands of children (comparing autism incidence in those who were vaccinated to those who were not vaccinated) that there is no link between autism and the MMR. The study that started the myth was based on only 12 children with autism, 8 of whom were said to have developed autism shortly after receiving the MMR. There was no comparison group, and the sample size was tiny, but these were not the only problems with the "study". First, it was later found that most of the children had signs of autism before receiving the MMR; second, autism coincidentally appears in the second year of life, when the MMR vaccine is given; third, the main author had invented a patent related to a new measles vaccine and stood to gain from discrediting the MMR; fourth, the main author was retained by a lawyer 2 years before the article came out, as an expert witness for parents believing that the MMR had caused their child's autism, and was being paid handsomely for his services; fifth, the data was found to be faked; sixth, the main author was found to be dishonest in other ways as well - the parents of the children were responding to an advert about sueing Big Pharma for causing autism, so the children were not routine referrals as was claimed in the article; seventh, the "study" was found to have been unethically conducted, with children being subjected to unnecessary invasive procedures such as lumbar punctures, the main author not being qualified as a paediatrician, no ethics approval being obtained .... The list is actually very long, and I suggest that you rather read the GMC ruling. Also please read: Burnett RJ, Larson HJ, Moloi MH, Tshatsinde EA, Meheus A, Paterson P, François G. Addressing public questioning and concerns about vaccination in South Africa: A guide for healthcare workers. Vaccine. 2012; 30 Suppl 3:C72-8. |
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Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
posted at 24/10/2012 12:41 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 332
First: 12/11/2010 Last: 19/6/2013 |
In Response to Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?: Well, despite the British government 'forcing' the MMR injection down the necks of parents, this is not the only case where a child has been given the MMR and become autistic... I don't care what the argument about it... I will always say this, why would a doctor lie about something so important and why should he have been struck off if he was lying...The british government are guilty of gross misconduct and one day it will be proved inconclusively . JUST HOPE THE DAY COMES SOONER THAN LATER. Posted by gina
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Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
posted at 24/10/2012 3:11 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 8
First: 30/3/2012 Last: 20/2/2013 |
In Response to Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?: In Response to Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism? : Many years ago when our daughter was small she was invited to another child's birthday party. One of the other children there (age < 1) was weird. We went to that party again the next year: same child, still weird. And the next year, the parents were going on about how their child had been given the MMR and had 'caught' autism. The child was just as weird as it had been at the previous 2 parties when the parents thought it was normal. MMR does not cause autism, it just happens to be given at about the same time that weirdness is given a label and thus the MMR is tarnished by association. This boils down to the old statistical truism: Correlation does not prove causation. Posted by TimReynolds I agree the case for MMR causing autism remains unproven. Nevertheless we are faced with an uncomfortable reality. Autistic spectrum disorder is commoner than it used to be, and we should be asking why this has happened. The problem is made more complex by the fact that the autistic spectrum disorders are not a single group, but several groups. It is unfortunate that debate on the subject has been suppressed by draconian actions against well-motivated doctors who thought they had the answer to the conundrum. I am glad that an authority in another jurisdiction is going to consider the evidence again. |
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Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
posted at 24/10/2012 4:01 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1343
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 19/6/2013 |
In Response to Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?: In Response to Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism? : I agree the case for MMR causing autism remains unproven. Nevertheless we are faced with an uncomfortable reality. Autistic spectrum disorder is commoner than it used to be, and we should be asking why this has happened. The problem is made more complex by the fact that the autistic spectrum disorders are not a single group, but several groups. It is unfortunate that debate on the subject has been suppressed by draconian actions against well-motivated doctors who thought they had the answer to the conundrum. I am glad that an authority in another jurisdiction is going to consider the evidence again. Posted by SusannahK Autistic spectrum disorder is commoner than it used to be Do you mean as opposed to the diagnosis of autism? If so please provide the proof. Thanks. |
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Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
posted at 24/10/2012 4:37 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 332
First: 12/11/2010 Last: 19/6/2013 |
In Response to Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?: In Response to Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism? : . I am glad that an authority in another jurisdiction is going to consider the evidence again. Posted by SusannahK I don't think you can consider lawyers to be an authority - parasites would be a more accurate description: Their primary role seems to be in maximising the duration of argument whilst doing the best to twist the science to better the benefit to their wallets. |
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Re: Italian court to rule on whether MMR causes autism?
posted at 24/10/2012 8:25 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 3059
First: 27/3/2012 Last: 13/6/2013 |
A majority of studies have overwhelmingly found no link between autism and MMR. A new, unpublished study has examined blood samples from a group of 100 autistic children and 200 children without autism. These samples have been examined using the most sensitive methods available. They found 99% of the samples contained no trace of the measles virus, and the samples that did contain the virus were just as likely to be from non-autistic children. The study therefore found no evidence of any link between MMR and autism. Here are some interesting articles: 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/mmr_prog_summary.shtml, 2. http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/public-health/vaccination-resources/pediatric-vaccination/relationship-between-mmr.page |
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