Gun control in the USA
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Gun control in the USA
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There has been another shooting in the United States where a lone gunman killed 10 people and injured many more. Gun control is well discussed topic but what can be done to control weapons? Why
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Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 9:31 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1012
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 15/6/2013 |
There has been another shooting in the United States where a lone gunman killed 10 people and injured many more. Gun control is well discussed topic but what can be done to control weapons? Why do people own automatic weapons? Is there any answer. In the UK where gun ownership is essentilly illegal (with exceptions) and so deaths by people using guns is rare. In the US, the constitution allows a well armed 'militia'. What exactly does that mean?. In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two Second Amendment decisions. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. In dicta, the Court listed many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession as being consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[4] |
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Re: Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 12:12 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2140
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 20/6/2013 |
Thank you kirked, always a contentious subject. So contentious that I'm going to draw our moderators' attention to it, just in case. In other Anglo-American message boards, such threads are often closed down right away, or quickly as words start to fly. Not here, not on civilised, diplomatic doc2doc, but please everyone, choose your words very carefully. Your opponent may be armed.. It was bizarre to hear via the BBC's correspondent of the response from the Gun Lobby to this event. I paraphrase as I cannot recall the precise words, but "if the audience had also been armed then the gunman would have been neutralised rapidly." It's their country, but I'm glad that I live in one where none of my compatriots may own an assault rifle with a 100-round magazine, let alone 6000 rounds of ammunition, a pistol or an automatic shotgun. John |
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Re: Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 1:11 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 3011
First: 10/3/2009 Last: 20/6/2013 |
We had a massacre in Port Arthur in Tasmania after which our government tightened gun controls. I am not sure if gun-related homicide has fallen .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia) I suspect it is the same. We have very tight gun laws. I used to have a gun safe but sold it as to hold a gun licence was too demanding and I did not have time to go to the range regularly. I was an officer in the army and was fully trained in gun safety and carried an automatic rifle everywhere on Active Service. Now the guns are in the hands of the criminals. Honest people find it hard to keep a gun licence. On the other hand, few people shoot it out with criminals. It is not the Wild West. I think there is a balance between too many guns and too much government control of guns. I think we have a lower rate of accidental gun deaths and unnecessary gun-related deaths than the USA. However, I think our homicide rate was lower even before gun control. Governments rarely give the populace the honest data about such things. The press also remains docile. Its nose is in the same trough. I think we have more knife-related homicide and no one is banning kitchen knives or issuing permits to hold a Japanese sushi knife. |
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Re: Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 1:36 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2140
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 20/6/2013 |
For debate, here is a recnt article on US guncrime from the Guardian newspaper: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state And for comparison, but not very current, the Wiki article on world gunshot death statistics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate In summary, homicides only, and not all from the same source, but collated on the Wiki: Australia 0.44 (per 100,00? It doesn't say) 1998 England + Wales 0.07 United States 4.14 But, see South Africa 75, yes, seventy five . The biggest study I can find is Krug et al: Firearm-related deaths in the United States and 35 other high- and upper-middleincome countries, EG Krug, KE Powell and LL Dahlberg, International Journal of Epidemiology 1998;27:214-221John |
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Re: Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 4:45 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1302
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 12/6/2013 |
Well Said Kirked and John D, I too see loopholes in the USA Gun laws. Lets start off by saying that as a Police Officer of 32 years I have seen Criminals get arrested for guns then get released from prison. This is unacceptable, if you own, use and injure or kill with a gun, you should be locked up forever, period, Now onto Ownership, I have as a police officer had numerous death threats, so I use my Guns for protection of my family, nothing else, save - Target practice. I certainly have a right to possess and keep my legal guns. More needs to be done to keep them from criminals, such as better background checks. The current laws we have in the USA are not enforced because Liberal Judges do not enforce the law! Here is a little fact, I applied for a pistol permit in my state NY, 20 years ago, it took 6 months to clear the background check, Mental health and crime check. Now every time I buy a new pistol, None any more, but as an example it takes a week to do another check, then when I go to get the gun, the dealer does another check with FBI, so the control is there, yet if a criminal uses an illegal gun in a crime, he gets a slap on the wrist, is that not STUPID???? KIRKED and JOHN D what do you think? DuaneF |
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Re: Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 5:50 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1012
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 15/6/2013 |
In Response to Re: Gun control in the USA: Well Said Kirked and John D, I too see loopholes in the USA Gun laws. Lets start off by saying that as a Police Officer of 32 years I have seen Criminals get arrested for guns then get released from prison. This is unacceptable, if you own, use and injure or kill with a gun, you should be locked up forever, period, Now onto Ownership, I have as a police officer had numerous death threats, so I use my Guns for protection of my family, nothing else, save - Target practice. I certainly have a right to possess and keep my legal guns. More needs to be done to keep them from criminals, such as better background checks. The current laws we have in the USA are not enforced because Liberal Judges do not enforce the law! Here is a little fact, I applied for a pistol permit in my state NY, 20 years ago, it took 6 months to clear the background check, Mental health and crime check. Now every time I buy a new pistol, None any more, but as an example it takes a week to do another check, then when I go to get the gun, the dealer does another check with FBI, so the control is there, yet if a criminal uses an illegal gun in a crime, he gets a slap on the wrist, is that not STUPID???? KIRKED and JOHN D what do you think? DuaneF Posted by DuaneF Hi Duane, what is the law about automtic weapons? If a young person wants to own a gun and goes through the legal process what is involved?, secondly how easy is it to get a weapon illegally? It appears that this guy got 6000 rounds from the internet - how does that work? |
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Re: Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 6:23 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1343
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 19/6/2013 |
It's true that nations with tight gun control still have gun-related crime and mass killings - but it's also true that both are much less frequent in those tightly controlled nations. I for one feel very safe in a country where even the police do not routinely carry guns and gun-related homicides are almost unheard of - so much so than when one does occur it's still in the news many months later. |
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Re: Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 6:31 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1302
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 12/6/2013 |
Hi Kirked, Lets see my friend, Here are the Laws, Fully Automatic weapons are outlawed in all states except Louisana and Arizona, and maybe a few others, but by and large, not available, only to Military and Police units. In NY 10 clips only, and as for ammo, it is readily available, but large puchases will scurtinized. The assault weapons ban still remains in states like NY, but here is the Rub, I have a Marlin 30-30 deer rifle, 5 shot Lever gun, Cowboy style, not threatening at all, and over 100 years of history, Yet itis not called an assault rifle, but if a criminal assaults someone with it, certainly it is an assault rifle right? Its all Semantics Kirked. My own feelings are people like Me, Police and retired and retired Police should have access to guns, since we remain targets for criminals, makes sense, but others should be scrutinized further. Hope this helps, feel free to ask more questions, I have access to all the laws, Email if you like. Sincerely; DuaneF In Response to Re: Gun control in the USA: In Response to Re: Gun control in the USA : Hi Duane, what is the law about automtic weapons? If a young person wants to own a gun and goes through the legal process what is involved?, secondly how easy is it to get a weapon illegally? It appears that this guy got 6000 rounds from the internet - how does that work? Posted by kirked |
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Re: Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 7:19 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1012
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 15/6/2013 |
In Response to Re: Gun control in the USA: Hi Kirked, Lets see my friend, Here are the Laws, Fully Automatic weapons are outlawed in all states except Louisana and Arizona, and maybe a few others, but by and large, not available, only to Military and Police units. In NY 10 clips only, and as for ammo, it is readily available, but large puchases will scurtinized. The assault weapons ban still remains in states like NY, but here is the Rub, I have a Marlin 30-30 deer rifle, 5 shot Lever gun, Cowboy style, not threatening at all, and over 100 years of history, Yet itis not called an assault rifle, but if a criminal assaults someone with it, certainly it is an assault rifle right? Its all Semantics Kirked. My own feelings are people like Me, Police and retired and retired Police should have access to guns, since we remain targets for criminals, makes sense, but others should be scrutinized further. Hope this helps, feel free to ask more questions, I have access to all the laws, Email if you like. Sincerely; DuaneF In Response to Re: Gun control in the USA : Posted by DuaneF Hi Duane, do you carry a gun with you routinely or is it kept at home for self defence? I think that the US culture in relation to guns is so alien to us in the UK tht we find it difficult to understand. I am not criticising the US but the cultures in relation to guns will not change in the US and hopefully here in the UK we will never see UK Police routinely armed. We just have different cultures. |
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Re: Gun control in the USA
posted at 21/7/2012 10:56 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 3011
First: 10/3/2009 Last: 20/6/2013 |
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.aspx The stats you quoted, John are at odds with the above. After the Port Arthur massacre, the Australian federal government bought back from its citizens 643,000 firearms which indicates that firearms were out there. Being a rural nation with lots of feral and native species to hunt as well as farmers needing firearms, our firearm ownership was probably higher than down-town London. Whether tighter gun control led to fewer homicides, I am not convinced by this sequential data. What do you think. Most homicides are committed by people the victim knows. Mass killings are probably not preventable as they are done by men (mainly) who are nutters. |
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