Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?
False
General
Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?
Discuss non-medical topics
With the murder of two Police officers yesterday the debate about capital punishment has reemerged.
0
Cat:OffDutyForum:General
Cat:OffDutyForum:GeneralDiscussion:e4fafe71-babb-4ad4-8a28-a78f4c2d5b93
*This discussion is closed*
|
Re: Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?
posted at 19/9/2012 11:55 AM BST
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 1266
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 21/5/2013 |
My view has never changed and I doubt that it ever will. The hallmark of any justice system must be that the punishment given out must be limited and/or reversible (in light of new evidence). Capital punishment is permanent and irreversible. It is not about justice - it's about retribution. And the very fact that it has, in the past, killed innocent people (i.e. murdered them) means, in my view, it has no place in a rational, civilsed society. Lord Tebbit, in his usual right-wing rhetoric, says that a lack of capital punishment has resulted in 3 deaths a year committed by people who had previously committed murder and had they been hanged these additional murders wouldn't have occured. However, I fail to see how that can justify the risk of hanging an innocent person. If Lord Tebbit had had his way the murders that he claims would have been saved would have, instead, been replaced by the murder of innocents by the State - the Birmingham Six (wrongly accused and convicted in the 1970s for fatal IRA bombings); the Guilford Four (wrongly accused and convicted for IRA bombings in Guilford); Liverpool labourer George Kelly who was hanged in 1950 but had his conviction quashed recently; Sian Jenkins convicted of the murder of his foster daughter in 1997 only to have his conviction quashed in 2004; Sam Hallam, jailed for murder in 2005 but who had his conviction quahsed in 2012; Robert Brown, convicted for murder in 1977 who actually turned down parole in order to prove his innocence - his conviction was then quahsed in 2003; Liam Holden convicted in 1972 on the basis of a confesssion obtained at gunpoint and with water boarding whose conviction was finally quahsed 40 years later in 2012; and so on. |
|
|
Re: Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?
posted at 19/9/2012 12:25 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 2047
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 21/5/2013 |
This study in 2009 reviewed all the available evidence for an evidence base that judicial execution deterred murderers. It concluded that there was none. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/jclc/backissues/v99/n2/9902_489.Radelet.pdf As Steve has listed UK cases of wriongful execution or conviction that could have led to execution, here is a list from the US, where many states allow it. The North Western School of Law has an interest in re-investigation cases, and has published this list of 18 http://www.law.northwestern.edu/wrongfulconvictions/issues/wrongfulexecutions/ John |
|
|
Re: Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?
posted at 19/9/2012 12:34 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 959
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Capital Punishment is no deterrent. Just look at the USA. Last year 14,748 people were murdered (FBI stat) yet people say that state execution is a deterrent. If it is a deterrent then removing it would logically increase the murder rate – that would surely say there is something deeply wrong with society. Last year 43 people were executed in the USA (reuters), including a man who was mentally retarded. The Innocence Project has exonerated 297 people on death row with DNA evidence. Without this evidence 297 innocent people would have been executed. In 146 of these exoneration cases the true subject has been found and charged. These DNA exoneration cases have provided irrefutable proof that wrongful convictions are not isolated or rare events, but arise from systemic defects that can be precisely identified and addressed. Eyewitness Misidentification Testimony was a factor in 72% of post-conviction DNA exoneration cases in the U.S., making it the leading cause of these wrongful convictions. Invalidated or Improper Forensic Science played a role in approximately 50% of wrongful convictions later overturned by DNA testing. False confessions and incriminating statements lead to wrongful convictions in approximately 27% of cases. 28 of the DNA exonerees pled guilty to crimes they did not commit. Informants contributed to wrongful convictions in 18% of cases. Whenever informant testimony is used, the judge should instruct the jury that most informant testimony is unreliable as it may be offered in return for deals, special treatment, or the dropping of charges. It is galling to see the guilty go free, but it is intolerable to see an innocent man imprisoned. |
|
|
Re: Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?
posted at 19/9/2012 2:22 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 522
First: 6/9/2012 Last: 20/5/2013 |
No. I am quite worried about doctors considering this option ( and there has already been a discussion about tattoing people who have commited a crime recently ! - what is next? Chopping off hands? Eye for an eye??) |
|
|
Re: Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?
posted at 19/9/2012 4:41 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 1266
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 21/5/2013 |
The simple fact remains - the US homicide rate per capita is 3x that of the UK. The US has capital punishment, the UK does not. The US incarceration rate is 4x that of the UK. Time for a rethink? Criminals are, by nature and in a very perverse way, "living in the moment". They do not think of the consequences of their actions in terms of punishment if they get caught. They commit the crime because that immediate aim (whatever that is) outweighs any notion of concequences. Many murders are not premeditated - they occur as a consequence of unplanned events and circumstances or because of plans that go awry and get out of control. Having a death penalty will not change any of that. |
|
|
Re: Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?
posted at 19/9/2012 5:12 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 1283
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 21/5/2013 |
Kirked, One quick point. In the USA capital punishment is viewed as a deterrent, Some say yes, some say no! But here is one fact that is not arguable, the person who murders a Police Officer or anyone else, is 100% not likely to murder again if he is executed! So it is a deterrent to the criminal, this is a fact. Plan and simple... DuaneF In Response to Re: Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?: Capital Punishment is no deterrent. Just look at the USA. Last year 14,748 people were murdered (FBI stat) yet people say that state execution is a deterrent. If it is a deterrent then removing it would logically increase the murder rate – that would surely say there is something deeply wrong with society. Last year 43 people were executed in the USA (reuters), including a man who was mentally retarded. The Innocence Project has exonerated 297 people on death row with DNA evidence. Without this evidence 297 innocent people would have been executed. In 146 of these exoneration cases the true subject has been found and charged. These DNA exoneration cases have provided irrefutable proof that wrongful convictions are not isolated or rare events, but arise from systemic defects that can be precisely identified and addressed. Eyewitness Misidentification Testimony was a factor in 72% of post-conviction DNA exoneration cases in the U.S., making it the leading cause of these wrongful convictions. Invalidated or Improper Forensic Science played a role in approximately 50% of wrongful convictions later overturned by DNA testing. False confessions and incriminating statements lead to wrongful convictions in approximately 27% of cases. 28 of the DNA exonerees pled guilty to crimes they did not commit. Informants contributed to wrongful convictions in 18% of cases. Whenever informant testimony is used, the judge should instruct the jury that most informant testimony is unreliable as it may be offered in return for deals, special treatment, or the dropping of charges. It is galling to see the guilty go free, but it is intolerable to see an innocent man imprisoned. Posted by kirked |
|
|
Re: Should the UK have capital punishment for murderers?
posted at 19/9/2012 5:20 PM BST
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 2047
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 21/5/2013 |
And the innocent who is excuted is not likely to do anything ever again. Really, Duane, you are supposed to debate here. Saying the same thing as you did at first after another has put forward convincing evidence against your case just makes you look silly. Please answer Kirked's argument. John |
