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Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?
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Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?
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Ex-England football manager, Glenn Hoddle once casually remarked that people are born with certain impairments and disabilities because of ‘karma’- what comes around goes around. Many Sik
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Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 19/6/2012 12:18 PM BST on bmj.com
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In Response to Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?:
  Karma is neither a theoretical concept nor a belief system – it is a descriptor of an experiential reality. While you can describe the polarization of light in solution of sugar with a theoretical construct, the property of sweetness is an experiential reality. .    
Posted by homeopathyogi


Brix Refractometry is used to 'measure' sweetness, while direct measurment of sweetness is not possible?  Not so.
See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2814067/
This was so easy to find, yogi, that I fear you should do more reading of properly scientific journals, before you make such sweeping statements.

John

Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 19/6/2012 4:46 PM BST on bmj.com
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In Response to Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?:
  Karma is neither a theoretical concept nor a belief system – it is a descriptor of an experiential reality. While you can describe the polarization of light in solution of sugar with a theoretical construct, the property of sweetness is an experiential reality. Sadly, some present day followers of science have divorced themselves completely from subjective reality and chosen instead to embrace a partial and incomplete grayscale picture of the world. Rather than finding a “meaning” for Karma, one must get the experiential feel. The polarization of light, the chemical formula, the density and crystalline shape of sugar do not capture the essence of sweetness. Sugar is sweet, but so is honey, as are romantic memories and so also the sweet smell of success.   A true healer’s duty is alleviating the suffering of a patient rather than ridiculing an established form of medicine as quackery. If homeopathy is quackery in the opinion of one esteemed forum member, so be it – but please note it is not 21 st century quackery – it’s been around for over 200 years. Homeopathy has produced better results in containing many an epidemic and resolving chronic cases given up by other forms of medical practice in its two century long tradition.   I am a practicing, Registered Homeopath and a Certified Yoga Teacher, but I am quite open to accepting the limitations of both systems when it comes to the welfare of a patient. The wisdom lies in choosing the correct methodology. One must know when to get off the high horse and walk. Thanks to people like Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School, meditation and other mind-body-spirit techniques, have found a permanent place in modern medicine.    Regarding clinical outcomes when dealing with people having “faith” in Karma, we must understand that results will largely depend upon how far the individual has progressed in the practice and his/her experiential understanding of Karma. A terminally ill patient is indeed struggling with pain, but what the caregivers often miss is that the patient is also struggling with some other fundamental issues. Typically these issues are of acceptance – accepting one’s past without bitterness, accepting one’s own death and accepting that the world will go on without them. Unfortunately, neither healthcare professionals nor religious ministers are fully capable of helping. That is why one must prepare for death earlier on, when the person is in a healthier state of mind and body. Understanding the workings of Karma is one such step.    
Posted by homeopathyogi


Sir:

I am respectful of homeopathy - each certainly has the right to choose their treatment.
May I respectfully ask, what qualifies you to be a yogi or call yourself one?.

Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 19/6/2012 5:42 PM BST on bmj.com
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In Response to Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?:
In Response to Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma? : Sir: I am respectful of homeopathy - each certainly has the right to choose their treatment. May I respectfully ask, what qualifies you to be a yogi or call yourself one?.
Posted by Happy

Happy: Please see my earlier post. homepathyogi is my avatar for this forum. I am a humble aspirant and seeker on the path of Yoga. I was awarded the title of Yoga Bhaskara in the Sivananda tradition under the tutelage and discipleship of Swami Govindananda Saraswati Ji in Uttarkashi, Himalayas.

Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 19/6/2012 6:27 PM BST on bmj.com
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In Response to Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?:
In Response to Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma? : Brix Refractometry is used to 'measure' sweetness, while direct measurment of sweetness is not possible?  Not so. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2814067/ This was so easy to find, yogi, that I fear you should do more reading of properly scientific journals, before you make such sweeping statements. John
Posted by John D


Hi John D,

Brix measures the percentage of sucrose and other sweetening agents, so it is suited for measuring the intensity of sweetness. It does not and cannot measure the intensity of sensation in an individual since that is dependent on factors like age, metabolic status, cultural preferences, familiarity with the food, etc. - which alas a refractometer fails to perceive.

 

Thank you for the scientific paper link. However, the paper does not address qualitative and subjective aspects of pleasantness and its correlation to sweetness. The essence of sweetness is its flavor. For a scientific modeling of flavor one needs to move beyond descriptive, discriminatory and analytical measurements and include affective or hedonistic attributes for a complete picture. Ironically, hedonistic attributes are also subject to Karma, but that topic belongs to another arena.

 

This discussion seems to be drifting away from its original theme of Karma and patient care and I have little more to contribute than what I have put forth so far.

Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 19/6/2012 7:23 PM BST on bmj.com
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Last: 10/5/2013
it is beyond my thinking.

Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 19/6/2012 8:45 PM BST on bmj.com
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Last: 20/6/2012
In Response to Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?:
I suppose the interesting question is whether these beliefs really do impact upon the patient's choice of treatment. For instance, if a patient does believe their medical condition/disability is due to karma and it is a natural sequence, then would they want medical intervention?
Posted by ClaireLouise


Dear ClaireLoiuse,

As a practising buddhist who is also a hindu by birth, I will attempt to answer your question from my perspective. Karma simply refers to the law of cause and effect. It does not imply some kind of judgement, that if a person is born disabled it's their own fault. That is a negative and generally pointless intepretation of karma. The point instead is to take responsibility for one's own actions and current situation, recognising it is your own karma as opposed to blaming one's environment and others in it.

 Also by accepting one's negative circumstances/suffering/ illness etc as a result of one's own negative actions one can now take positive actions to have a positive effect. This is the key point. Karma is not fixed and unchanging, one can transform their negative karma by making the right causes. It is not some kind of 'fate' or unchangeable destiny!!

Therefore if my patient tells me it is his karma to suffer from an illness, I personally would remind him that be that as it may, by his making the right treatment decisions and also by virtue of his positive actions in the past or present he may equally get better/cured/pain-free/die in peace (depending on the actual prognosis medically in individual cases).

Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 20/6/2012 4:00 AM BST on bmj.com
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Karma is not confined to Hindus,Buddhists,Jains,Sikhs etc.Almost everybody in the Ancient world believed in Karma.The Early Christians believed in it too.However, at the Church Council held at Constantinople in the 6th century,Emperor Maximilian repudiated this concept and Christianity changed it's course.Karma explains the wide  disparity in the world without bringing in third parties like Divinity etc.

Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 20/6/2012 4:54 AM BST on bmj.com
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First: 10/3/2009
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My wife sometimes tells me I should be karma. 

We believe that you get away with nothing in this world and that "the mills of the gods grind slow but they grind exceeding small." Karma for a western mind. 

Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 20/6/2012 10:37 AM BST on bmj.com
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First: 13/4/2010
Last: 19/6/2013

I am just sad that my fellow human beings feel the need to believe in anything divine or supernatural or mystic or whatever. Life just is. Bad things happen, good things happen. Enjoy the good times as much as you can; deal with the bad things as best you can. Spend your whole life treating others as you would wish to be treated yourself and you will not go far wrong. Challenge greed, poverty, exploitation, injustice, prejudice, etc. wherever and whenever you see it. Stand up for yourself, your neighbours, your community. It really is no more complicated than that and nor does it need to be.
People can believe whatever they wish to believe - good luck  to them (though I don't believe in luck either). But I don't wish it for myself. So no three fates waiting to cut my threads, no Karma, no pearly gates, no fiery underworlds, no reincarnation. Just this one life; this one small, insignificant life for me to make the most of and enjoy as much as I can for as long as I can. And if you want to believe something then believe me when I say I really do have the time of my life.

Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?

posted at 20/6/2012 12:10 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 3008
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 20/6/2013
In Response to Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?:
I am just sad that my fellow human beings feel the need to believe in anything divine or supernatural or mystic or whatever. Life just is. Bad things happen, good things happen. Enjoy the good times as much as you can; deal with the bad things as best you can. Spend your whole life treating others as you would wish to be treated yourself and you will not go far wrong. Challenge greed, poverty, exploitation, injustice, prejudice, etc. wherever and whenever you see it. Stand up for yourself, you neighbours, you community. It really is no more complicated than that and nor does it need to be. People can believe whatever they wish to believe - good luck  to them (though I don't believe in luck either). But I don't wish it for myself. So no three fates waiting to cut my threads, no Karma, no pearly gates, no fiery underworlds, no reincarnation. Just this one life; this one small, insignificant life for me to make the most of and enjoy as much as I can for as long as I can. And if you want to believe something then belive me when I say I really do have the time of my life.
Posted by skyesteve

Here, here Steve from Skye. I feel karma just reading this. Cut the bull, shit happens, give it your best shot and be a fair dinkum bloke. That sums it up. I agree. Remove the bull in life and we'd be a happier and more loving species. 

Put another prawn on the barbie, pass me a coldie and that about sums up life as I see it. I'll listen to you as the prawns sizzle and be your mate when it all goes pearshape in the cyclical sine wave of existence on this planet. This is a short one but a goodie. 

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