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Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?
posted at 17/6/2012 9:53 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 7
First: 17/6/2012 Last: 25/7/2012 |
Ex-England football manager, Glenn Hoddle once casually remarked that people are born with certain impairments and disabilities because of ‘karma’- what comes around goes around. Many Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus and Jains believe in this concept of karma and that the human body we have been born with is the result of our past (good or bad) karmic acts. Does this mean that people born with impairment did something bad in the past? Is there such a thing as a ‘karmic model of disability?’ Have you ever had a patient who belived in karma and did it impact their outlook on their condition?
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Re: Karma and health
posted at 17/6/2012 10:59 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 3059
First: 27/3/2012 Last: 13/6/2013 |
Yes, many Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus and Jains believe in this concept of karma and that the human body we have been born with is the result of our past (good or bad) karmic acts. It does mean that people born with impairment did something bad in the past. There seems a logic behind this ancient & well established concept but it cannot be proved scientifically due to the limitations of our human brain & many such facts are beyond the human imagination & seem to need a special 'activation' to have a proper understanding of this spiritual phenomenon by the authorities in this field. |
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Re: Karma and health
posted at 17/6/2012 11:35 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 11
First: 17/6/2012 Last: 21/6/2012 |
Karma is not the Law of Retribution. Karma is action and the fruit of action taken together. Those who "believe" or intuitively understand the workings of Karma do not attribute any deed as good or bad. Every action eventually leads to a result, and again, the result is neither good nor bad. The subjectivity of good or bad is the concept of a mind conditioned by the pain and pleasure principle.
Death occurs when a person (or even an organ or cell) reaches a point where it finds it is better to start from the scratch than to carry on with the muddle of action and suffering (Karma). Thus death is a moment of reincarnation because it allows the genotypes to re-organize and try on new phenotypes. The body and mind is the outer garment (phenotype) of the genotype. Our genes are clothed by our identity in this lifetime to try on better patterns in order to evolve. Thus we do not "own" our genes, rather we "belong" to them. A person's genetic pool is a resonant pattern (like a charged particle) that affects and is affected by the morphogenetic field which moulds his/her material form in the next reincarnation. Hence there cannot be a generic model to describe a karmic model of disability, because each individual is affected by the morphogenetic field as well as its own unique charge. We are just another link in the chain of evolution – a sequence of forms striving towards perfection.
An understanding of Karma at the deepest level often helps patients get healthier despite debilitating diseases. Former alcoholics help addicts in rehabilitation, and diabetics help fellow diabetics manage their illness. Such people who have accepted their situation (Karmic fruit) are in a better state despite their disease than they were in their prime when they were termed healthier. The apparent clinical disability has in fact become a moral, social and spiritual strength. We must move beyond the mechanistic bio-psycho-social model to understand the human being, the human condition and human suffering. We must integrate a moral-symbolic-existential model for diagnosis and a spiritual-cultural-ritualistic model for care with the bio-psycho-social model. We must take medicine back to a humanistic plane and practice it as an art and not as an artisan fixing and mending bodies. IMHO, we must indeed take Glen Hoddles words seriously rather than treat them as a casual remark. |
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Re: Karma and health
posted at 18/6/2012 7:56 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1012
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 15/6/2013 |
Hi homeopathyogi, I am curious to know whether a healthcare professionals' belief in karma stands abruptly up against the belief in modern science?. Surely the two dialectics oppose each other .Secondly, how does a patient respond if they are told that their cancer is because of bad karma in their previous life? - assuming of course they are not Budhist or Hindu. |
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Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?
posted at 18/6/2012 11:54 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 11
First: 17/6/2012 Last: 21/6/2012 |
Hi Kirked, A healthcare professional who understands the workings of Karma appreciates that disease and suffering are moments of renewal for the patient. Lacking this understanding the caregiver can only provide pain relief and not pastoral care in the form of listening, supporting, encouraging and befriending - stuff that cannot be measured in terms of scientific parameters like pressure, temperature, or voltage, but matters most for recovery and well being.
Karma is not judgment – it is natural consequence. Apples falling down are a consequence of mass and gravitation – not a judgment of the apples ability to hold on to the branch. You don’t need to “tell” a cancer patient that it is Karma that is working out in the form of disease symptoms. Every patient comes to realize this truth at a deeper level once she/he is past the stage of Why me and Why now. etc.
A medical practitioner who is primarily concerned only with “scientific” information and data misses out on the underlying metaphor being expressed by the manifesting disease. If only the professional could reconnect with the pains, fears and emotions of patients, he would strengthen the patient to overcome Karma and heal - even though the patient is partially damaged on the physical plane.
Karma is not a belief system; it is the sequence of events one watches from the present position. And when we say “watch”, what is implied is observation bereft of associative thinking that leads to blame, guilt, shame etc. You don’t have to be a Buddhist, Jain or Hindu, only an unprejudiced observer.
If evolution, phenotype, genotype, past-life regression, morphogenetic fields, hypnosis, and meditation are part of modern science, then Karma belongs to that exalted community too. Science accepts any concept that helps us understand Nature – light was thought to be made up of particles during Newton’s time and then Huygens called it a wave and now we accept it as both - depending on our position of observation and perception. A healer accepts everything that helps the patient. We may need to develop and evolve newer strategies to measure its merit and worth, but it is worth the effort.
Let us accept that the practice of Medicine is an Art, and all art is based on science. A dictionary cannot reveal the beauty of poetry, it can only explain word meaning. Healing is Medicine, Art and Humanities all rolled into one. If the patient is the central theme, there are no opposing dialectics.
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Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?
posted at 18/6/2012 12:30 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1343
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 19/6/2013 |
An excellent and thoughful post homeopathyogi - and I really mean that. Of course, we must listen to our pateints and seek to understand their condition and concerns from their perspective and that is all part of being a good doctor. BUT please don't equate something like evolution or genetics with past life regression or meditation. They are not in the same boat and I see no role for past life regression in my day to day work (though I accept the merits of meditation for some). I suspect from you tag name you are a fan of homoeopathy (if not an actual homoeopath). You will see from my posts elsewhere on doc2doc that I am not as I believe it to be little more than a 21st century form of quackery which cons people. Just so we know where we stand! 
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Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?
posted at 18/6/2012 3:06 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2139
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 19/6/2013 |
If Karma means fate, then I see many patients who, bless them, say, "I trust you, doctor, to do your best, and I rather risk my operation than live with my (insert painful/uncomfortable condition)" Is that what you mean? John |
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Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?
posted at 18/6/2012 10:10 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 7
First: 17/6/2012 Last: 25/7/2012 |
I suppose the interesting question is whether these beliefs really do impact upon the patient's choice of treatment. For instance, if a patient does believe their medical condition/disability is due to karma and it is a natural sequence, then would they want medical intervention? |
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Re: Have you ever had a patient who expressed a belief in Karma?
posted at 19/6/2012 7:52 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 11
First: 17/6/2012 Last: 21/6/2012 |
Karma is neither a theoretical concept nor a belief system – it is a descriptor of an experiential reality. While you can describe the polarization of light in solution of sugar with a theoretical construct, the property of sweetness is an experiential reality. Sadly, some present day followers of science have divorced themselves completely from subjective reality and chosen instead to embrace a partial and incomplete grayscale picture of the world. Rather than finding a “meaning” for Karma, one must get the experiential feel. The polarization of light, the chemical formula, the density and crystalline shape of sugar do not capture the essence of sweetness. Sugar is sweet, but so is honey, as are romantic memories and so also the sweet smell of success.
A true healer’s duty is alleviating the suffering of a patient rather than ridiculing an established form of medicine as quackery. If homeopathy is quackery in the opinion of one esteemed forum member, so be it – but please note it is not 21stcentury quackery – it’s been around for over 200 years. Homeopathy has produced better results in containing many an epidemic and resolving chronic cases given up by other forms of medical practice in its two century long tradition.
I am a practicing, Registered Homeopath and a Certified Yoga Teacher, but I am quite open to accepting the limitations of both systems when it comes to the welfare of a patient. The wisdom lies in choosing the correct methodology. One must know when to get off the high horse and walk. Thanks to people like Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School, meditation and other mind-body-spirit techniques, have found a permanent place in modern medicine.
Regarding clinical outcomes when dealing with people having “faith” in Karma, we must understand that results will largely depend upon how far the individual has progressed in the practice and his/her experiential understanding of Karma. A terminally ill patient is indeed struggling with pain, but what the caregivers often miss is that the patient is also struggling with some other fundamental issues. Typically these issues are of acceptance – accepting one’s past without bitterness, accepting one’s own death and accepting that the world will go on without them. Unfortunately, neither healthcare professionals nor religious ministers are fully capable of helping. That is why one must prepare for death earlier on, when the person is in a healthier state of mind and body. Understanding the workings of Karma is one such step.
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