Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
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Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
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The article that was published in BMJ Careers this week - "Us" against "them" (link below) describes a personal experience of the working relationship between doctors and nurses. It is essential
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Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
posted at 5/4/2012 12:25 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 8
First: 21/2/2012 Last: 5/4/2012 |
The article that was published in BMJ Careers this week - "Us" against "them" (link below) describes a personal experience of the working relationship between doctors and nurses. It is essential to realise the importance of working in a multidisciplinary team to optimise patient care. Is the experience of the author of the artice unique or have you had similar experiences? Are there any ways to cope with, and act professionally, or address issues of rudeness from other members of staff in the work environment? Also, how do you deal with a colleague who has been rude to another? Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS? If there is, how do we prevent this from happening? http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/view-article.html?id=20007064#.T3wK9nJSQWM.twitter |
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Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
posted at 6/4/2012 1:19 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 50
First: 5/3/2010 Last: 23/1/2013 |
a good nurse is worth her weight in gold. a bad nurse is dangerous and i have had no compunction in leaving them in tears. the dr. is in charge and takes the full responsibility. if a nurse does not accept that she should be told in no uncertain terms. |
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Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
posted at 6/4/2012 4:48 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1351
First: 25/1/2009 Last: 24/5/2013 |
in part the "team" works well as long as you are doing what the other half of the team want you to do. Last week I found myself at odds with the nurses over a heparin infusion rate which had been discussed with the Haematology reg who agreed there was not upper limit, but because "its not what we usually do" I met with extreme resistance from a team of nurses who are usually verry clinically helpful |
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Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
posted at 6/4/2012 5:13 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 964
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 25/5/2013 |
In Response to Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?: a good nurse is worth her weight in gold. a bad nurse is dangerous and i have had no compunction in leaving them in tears. the dr. is in charge and takes the full responsibility. if a nurse does not accept that she should be told in no uncertain terms. Posted by rmtracey It seems quite right to recognise a nurse who is skilful, experienced and competent. But I think to leave a nurse in tears without compunction is rather unhelpful. Of course you must make clear when you require a specific regimen at times and if their is a difference of opinion then it must be resolved - but to intimidate someone to make them cry seems very unkind. It cannot be a good way to foster a good working relationships for the future. The patient of course must come first and the most effective way must surely be a good working relationship which is mutually respectful. |
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Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
posted at 6/4/2012 6:18 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1288
First: 9/12/2011 Last: 24/5/2013 |
Leaving a nurse in Tears only serves to bolster the false bravado of the Doctor, and to make the Doctor feel important. No where in any management class is there any literature related to making someone Cry being helpful. In fact, numerous pages of text illuminate this as a Hostile workplace act, Punishable in the USA with fines, and in some cases jail time! Good managers always seek to Build up their subordinates, rather than tear them down. DuaneF |
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Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
posted at 6/4/2012 11:49 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1
First: 6/4/2012 Last: 6/4/2012 |
In Response to Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?: a good nurse is worth her weight in gold. a bad nurse is dangerous and i have had no compunction in leaving them in tears. the dr. is in charge and takes the full responsibility. if a nurse does not accept that she should be told in no uncertain terms. Posted by rmtracey As a registered nurse and medical student I feel I must point out to rmtracey that the doctor does NOT take the full responsibility. Among the many responsibilities that nurses take on is that of administering medication. Nurses do not blindly follow drug charts once they have been written by doctors. Instead, we assess the appropriateness of every prescription and only administer a drug if it is safe to do so. To do otherwise would be to act against the Code of Conduct of our registered body. This is, no doubt, why the nurses mentioned by DrS were reluctant to administer a heparin injection when there was a lack of clarity about the safe rate of administration. It is unfortunate that so many doctors have had bad experiences of working with nurses. Having a complete lack of understanding of another professional's responsibilities however, only serves to reinforce the divide between the professions. Furthermore, to deliberately make a colleague cry is totally inappropriate and wholly unprofessional. |
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Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
posted at 7/4/2012 1:12 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2060
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 24/5/2013 |
Surely not! How many nurses do you know who are married to doctors? AFAIK, such marriages are no more or less stable than any others. So the culture can't be too 'anti', can it? John PS Nurse/Doctor relationships. I heard a lecture from a US doctor a while ago, telling how their hospital used 'role playing' to resolve compliants and disputes within the healthcare team. The actual protagonists would go through the incident again, cold turkey, word for word, in an office. He showed some videos, I think with ''actors", including one where a nurse had complained about a doctor. The script went like this: Doc: Nurse, why didn't you give Mr.X the prescription I ordered? Nurse: Oh. doctor, I'm really really sorry - I just forgot! Doc (loudly): You'd forget who you slept with last night! THAT's leaving them in tears. J |
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Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
posted at 16/4/2012 6:19 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 3
First: 8/8/2010 Last: 16/4/2012 |
In my experience the answer to this question is "it all depends," and its mostly doctors that it depends on. As a patient I have seen doctors and nurses working at loggerheads with each other, communicating poorly if at all, and giving conflicting advice and instructions. As a dependent patient I found this worrying and frustrating. I have also seen doctors and nurses work in total harmony. When I complimented one of the nurses on the good team work she said it was all down to having a consultant who valued all her team members, was keen to listen to their views and didn't pulled rank. My experience on the ward was enhanced by the efficiency of the team and the tangible good spirit. |
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Re: Is there a culture of 'doctors vs. nurses' in the NHS?
posted at 16/4/2012 10:28 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 2
First: 14/4/2012 Last: 16/4/2012 |
I have worked in multidisciplinary teams for thirty years and it has been almost invariably a good experience. Problems between the professions are in my experience usually problems with individuals played out through their professional roles. These are often framed as nursestaking a straightforward view of good practice as adhering to protocols & instructions from superiors and doctors viewing problems as more complex and negotiating uncertainty focused on the patient's best interest. Clashes are then predictable but not irresolvable. |
