Should the medical degree be longer?
False
Student BMJ
Should the medical degree be longer?
Meet and chat with medical students from around the world
Part of my job is to manage the first three years of our undergraduate medical curriculum. An interesting, challenging task. Over the last 12 months we've re-booted our curriculum, to try
0
Cat:7417b102-ba73-4133-a3c0-2c114097a6b6Forum:f8ab0029-2d33-4cd0-8b40-0a70916c088e
Cat:7417b102-ba73-4133-a3c0-2c114097a6b6Forum:f8ab0029-2d33-4cd0-8b40-0a70916c088eDiscussion:db5928ef-9071-4283-ab19-e7932d0170f7
Forums » Medical Education & CPD » Student BMJ » Should the medical degree be longer?
|
Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 9:59 AM GMT
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 1177
First: 19/4/2010 Last: 16/5/2013 |
Part of my job is to manage the first three years of our undergraduate medical curriculum. An interesting, challenging task. Over the last 12 months we've re-booted our curriculum, to try to retore balance to the force, or at least to bring back an emphasis on basic science, and to test our students more thoroughly. During this process we have had requests from many areas for more time in the timetable to fit in their own speciality curriculum. Nutrition, behavioural science, psychology, oncology, palliative care: they all have their own curricula that would fill the best part of a year by themselves. Add into that all the basic science, the communication skills, the primary care focus, the clinical aspects of medicine, an elective, foundation apprenticeships.... and there's not a lot of room for anything anymore. We teach respiratory medicine to the first years, for 6 weeks, and that's it. I hope they remember it by graduation. With the curriculum bursting at the seams, should we not simply extend the degree course by a year? I did a course of 3 years preclinical, and 2 and 1/3 years clinical (with no holidays in the clinical bit). Should medicine be a 6 year course for everyone?
|
|
Re: Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 12:31 PM GMT
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 2947
First: 10/3/2009 Last: 29/4/2013 |
It was six years when I did medicine and we know a lot more now so how can it be longer when we did real anatomy etc. and not the Ladybird Book of Anatomy. The degree is just to make sure you know enough to know you do not. know enough so you can be safe enough to not to kill someone. You have the rest of your career to hone your stone axe and read more Ladybird Books of Medicine. Odysseus |
|
|
Re: Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 12:48 PM GMT
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 321
First: 12/11/2010 Last: 8/5/2013 |
You could argue that for some specialties you don't need any where near as long as 5 years. Instead of trying to convert 18-year old into pluripotential iatroblasts, perhaps it would be better if there was more streaming - perhaps a short course in lumps & bumps surgery using local anaesthetic could be completed in just 6 months. Or, other areas could be equally slimmed down. where a defined process will be carried out.... |
|
|
Re: Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 1:17 PM GMT
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 339
First: 17/12/2011 Last: 15/5/2013 |
I think there are disadvantages in lengthening Medical undergraduate training. It may be helpful to look at the whole of a medical career. Is adding a year to when one starts to practice medicine and perhaps another couple of years at the end of a medical career good for patients and good for doctors? In the UK medical students already have huge debts and another year will add to this. As Odysseus says a degree is just to make sure you know enough so you can be safe enough to not to kill someone. No one can learn all there is to know in medicine. It's not the 'Few in the Battle of Britian', but to learn to fly one needs to start flying. |
|
|
Re: Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 1:53 PM GMT
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 1
First: 27/11/2012 Last: 27/11/2012 |
I don't quite agree with the idea that all of these 'Nutrition, behavioural science, psychology, oncology, palliative care' need to be in undergraduate curriculum. Because firstly, some of them, such as communication skills and socio/psychological effects of illness on human beings are already covered in parallel with other clinical specialties in most UK universities. Secondly, medicine has never been just learning about some basic sciences and applying it to human bodies, it always requires the appreciation of other dimensions involved, and this is what is expected of students when they set their clinical (and some pre-clinical) examinations. As for the length of training, I think 5/6 years is already quite long and adding any more years onto that will probably deter some students from embarking into this field.
|
|
|
Re: Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 2:10 PM GMT
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 2034
First: 12/3/2010 Last: 17/5/2013 |
Medicine is supposed to a profession of life-long learning! (as are all 'professions') It's less a matter of 'can the syllabus be fitted into a certain period', and more one of what is the minimum before a doctor can be let loose on the wards. I certainly don't think that "Nutrition, behavioural science, psychology, oncology, palliative care" need be part of the student syllabus, any more than anaesthesia is, although anaesthetists as specialists in airway control and vascular access, and in critical care, should have a small input. I can remember when most consultants were too busy for courses and even symposia or conferences. Yes, they were very busy indeed, the young NHS worked them disgracefully hard, but "Continuing Medical Education" is now enshrined in re-validation. We need a system that adjusts the balance between working and learning through one's career, perhaps going towards the work after one gets out of med.school, and then back towards learning as one gets old. And teaching, as teaching teaches the teacher as well as the student. John |
|
|
Re: Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 2:33 PM GMT
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 13
First: 16/3/2012 Last: 9/4/2013 |
In Response to Re: Should the medical degree be longer?: Medicine is supposed to a profession of life-long learning! (as are all 'professions') It's less a matter of 'can the syllabus be fitted into a certain period', and more one of what is the minimum before a doctor can be let loose on the wards. I certainly don't think that "Nutrition, behavioural science, psychology, oncology, palliative care" need be part of the student syllabus, any more than anaesthesia is, although anaesthetists as specialists in airway control and vascular access, and in critical care, should have a small input. I can remember when most consultants were too busy for courses and even symposia or conferences. Yes, they were very busy indeed, the young NHS worked them disgracefully hard, but "Continuing Medical Education" is now enshrined in re-validation. We need a system that adjusts the balance between working and learning through one's career, perhaps going towards the work after one gets out of med.school, and then back towards learning as one gets old. And teaching, as teaching teaches the teacher as well as the student. John Posted by John D I think it's a good idea to extend the curriculum even accepting medicine is a lifelong learning career. I am an international medical graduate and our 6-year curriculum plus 18 months of internship (FY1 or House Officer level) was very useful. I remember we had more clinical disciplines added to the 4 major wards (Medicine, Surgery, Paediatrics and Obs & Gynae). The one-month placements during the 20-month externship and 18-month internship developed my confidence and later on in my professional life, I was less bothered with courses and CMEs because I already had good exposure to most of the disciplines. I have changed a lot since my graduation and have considerably developed through years, thankful to longer period of my medical education, although I was quite grudged about this when I was a medical student! |
|
|
Re: Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 5:39 PM GMT
on bmj.com
|
|
Posts: 16
First: 18/10/2012 Last: 14/5/2013 |
As a graduate doing a 5 year course I simply couldnt afford to pay for a 6th year with the debt I accrued in my 1st degree and now 5 more years quickly stacking up. Either graduate only with a pre-clinical course OR reduce the touchy-feely teaching and give us more science/actual medicine teaching so we can pass our membership exams once we are qualified. |
|
|
Re: Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 7:07 PM GMT
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 1258
First: 13/4/2010 Last: 18/5/2013 |
I don't necessarily think the medical degree itself shoud be extended but over the years I have increasingly come round to the US model that a medical degree should be a second degree. I went to medical school at 17 and graduated at 22. I did a lot of growing up in that time but I am still not convinced that at 22 I had sufficient maturity or life experience to deal with the trauma of dying children. |
|
|
Re: Should the medical degree be longer?
posted at 27/11/2012 8:27 PM GMT
on bmj.com
|
Posts: 624
First: 13/4/2011 Last: 15/5/2013 |
Hi Skysteeve: I also graduated at your age, thanks to a special Judge permission. I prolonged my Medical course, let´s say because I was ahead of my colleagues for about 2 years (I think people call that a gifted adolescent). It was not all that easy being always 2 years behind my colleagues!!! I think 6 years of Medical Education is the right point! Larger does NOT mean BETTER!!! All Best, Joey
|
Forums » Medical Education & CPD » Student BMJ » Should the medical degree be longer?
