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Working in South Africa
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Working in South Africa
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I'm an F1 considering joining the mass exodus abroad, but not to Aus/NZ, but to South Africa, just after F2 for 1 year. I see this as an opportunity to broaden my clinical experience in a different s
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Working in South Africa

posted at 12/3/2009 9:22 PM GMT
Posts: 78
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 16/10/2012

I'm an F1 considering joining the mass exodus abroad, but not to Aus/NZ, but to South Africa, just after F2 for 1 year. I see this as an opportunity to broaden my clinical experience in a different setting, with different patients/illnesses/health beliefs.

I'm weighing up whether this is the right time (i expect to continue to be fairly indecided about my career aspirations, and relish being in the 'lost tribe' of shos of the past; natural break between f2 and st1 with no deanery approval needed; no mortgages/children keeping me here) or the wrong time (issues with re-entry back into MMC, with the 'safer' option of going between st1 and st2 as oop; my relative inexperience putting patients at risk in a less supervised setting)

Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences?

Cheers!

Re: Working in South Africa

posted at 15/3/2009 2:25 PM GMT on bmj.com
Posts: 888
First: 12/11/2008
Last: 2/5/2012

Hi Adam,

You're not alone! I know lots of people who want to do the same. Most of them have been swept away on the career conveyor-belt - it's really hard to go against the tide and not go from foundation to specialty training, especially given the competativeness for jobs (which seems to have eased a bit when it comes to getting an ST1 job, but become as bad as ever for higher training jobs).

Having said that, I do know a few people who have got an ST1 job and managed to defer for a year (I'm the only one I know who wasn't allowed to!). There doesn't seem to be any stigma or dsadvantage to going away for a year like there was in the past. If you want to be a surgeon another year of experience, particualrly if you can do a surgical job in somewhere like South Africa, might be a big advantage and may also help you make your mind up about what you really want to do.

Re: Working in South Africa

posted at 16/3/2009 9:11 AM GMT on bmj.com
Ha
Posts: 21
First: 17/2/2009
Last: 15/6/2010

South Africa or any where in the world they all have doctors, patients and friends. I think for most of the circumstances we involve in our life it all would have good chance to learn somethings, share somethings, enjoy somethings and of course take some incidents that we could not be awared  from totally. Do not be sad !!! Most of them have the right and also the wrong "faces" :-)).

You are connecting to doctors all over the world through an excellent chanel of BMJ.So we are all here to meet and share.

Orchid

Re: Working in South Africa

posted at 16/3/2009 5:29 PM GMT on bmj.com
Posts: 2
First: 16/3/2009
Last: 16/3/2009

Hi I have been a doctor in SA for many years - the experience is very good - there are recruitment agencies that help part time and full time doctors. Thewre is also a great need especially in rural areas and a lot of responsibility. just check that you get somewhere where there is also good support.

Claire

Re: Working in South Africa

posted at 25/3/2009 9:30 AM GMT on bmj.com
Posts: 78
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 16/10/2012

thanks to you all for the advice!

tom - my understanding is that 'time out of programme' can take 4 forms.
oopt - prospectively approved post
oopr - time out for a higher degree
oopc - planned break due to personal reasons
oope - unapproved post
these can be taken at any time, but oope is the hardest for which to arrange deferral of a successful application. in fact impossible, unless i interpreted what you said about your friends - did they get oope between f2 and st1 with a job waiting for them back in the uk???
 
orchid - one of the reasons i'm looking for this opportunity is to see these different faces occupying familiar roles as i think you're saying. my previous travel experiences have been very rich in learning. and despite the cliche, yes, you do learn about yourself, especially if you're perceptive to what people of the different culture think of you! it's fun.
 
claire - agreed. there's nothing i'd want less than to cause harm through lack of supervision. i'm hoping to apply through rural health initiative/african health placements to a place which i've heard highly of in terms of supportiveness - murchison hospital in margate. do you know of it (long shot...)?
 
a

Re: Working in South Africa

posted at 26/3/2009 5:02 PM GMT on bmj.com
Posts: 67
First: 10/12/2008
Last: 16/4/2009

Hi Adam,

Sounds like you have a plan. I took a break between fy2 and st1, i applied for a job during fy2 and asked to defer my entry for one year for research. At the time of deferring I didn't have a definite plan or any fixed contracts, but I created a very succint presentation for the Course manager, and Deanery head - that outlined my objectives and how it would help my career. They were very supportive and allowed me to defer my entry.

So even if you don;t have a fixed contract or place of employment - so long as you demonstrate that you aren't going to waste your year, many deaneries are supportive. Alternatively, as Tom mentioned, many friends went abroad - and applied for ST1 jobs the next  year successfully.

Good luck

Indra

Re: Working in South Africa

posted at 31/3/2009 12:28 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 6
First: 30/3/2009
Last: 27/4/2009

Adam,

I am a Brit who trained in NZ, worked in SA and who now is in specialist training in Aus. Unfortunately I have never worked in medicine in the UK, and so have no first hand experience of the current UK speciality training program and the status anxiety which it seems to generate.

Ultimately the only person who can decide whether the time and situation is 'right' is yourself.

Some advice given to me a while back by one of my mentors was to train in the place where you want to stay. It is becoming more and more difficult to transfer specialist qualifications between countries. In my case, I have had to prove to the GMC that I can speak my own language to work in my own country ( I had to suffer the indignity of sitting the IELTS...before the PLAB...as I trained in NZ).

There is a fair amount of popular rhetoric about work in NZ, Aus and SA. Having worked in all of them, here is my two pence worth :

SA. Rural medicine generally under resourced, often under supervised and can be over exposed. HIV and trauma are serious issues. Metropolitan life is hazardous - there are some dangerous places in SA !!! Registration is a bureaucratic nightmare....get someone to help you through the process and start about 6 months before you plan to go there. There is also immigration paperwork which itself takes time and energy to complete.

But...it's a fascinating and vibrant country, easy to get to from UK, some great people and there is some great healthcare (albeit mostly in the private sector now). Some of the best tutors I have had the pleasure of working for have been South Africans. Unfortunately they have their own exodus at the moment and many are headed to Aus. Money - very hard to make ends meet on a state salary, most MOs will supplement their income with private/locum work. This would probably be out of the question for a non South African.

NZ. Trained there and did my internship there. Many Brits like the fresh air and countryside, but few stay for more than a couple of years. The country is quite isolated from the rest of the world. Medical system is having serious problems with staff shortages (hence easy to get work). This is generally due to most NZ grads jumping the ditch to Aus. Expect to work long hours for no overtime (one of the unfortunate scams which leaves NZ doctors disgruntled).

Aus. Curently work in Aus, and I like the place. Registration is difficult though not impossible to negotiate - coming from the UK expect to be 'tied' to a hospital for the first year. This also precludes any locum work. Lifestyle is good. Medicine is becoming more defensive and emergency med is veering towards over investigation and medico legal protection. Plenty of jobs around. Standard terms are 39 hour weeks plus overtime (I currently work around 60 hour weeks, though this is compensated for by overtime payments). Outsiders won't be considered ahead of permanent residents or citizens for training posts. Locum work very lucrative - easy to find ED work at $130-$150 per hour.

Hope this helps. As I said, it's where you want to be that's important.

Neptune

Re: Working in South Africa

posted at 17/4/2009 12:05 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 24
First: 17/4/2009
Last: 10/1/2013

Hi Adam,,

First of all before adding my comment to this thread , I wish to greet all of you and identify my self to you.

My name is Abdullah, Family medicine resident. I will be one of the participant in this forum active,  Possibly.

The Issue u mentioned Adam regarding south Africa opportunity to work is so imp. Because , as u mentioned it is wourthful to do clinical practice there for more experience in different setting particularly in south africa which is a tropical area with multi health problems , So I agree with you and If I had this opportunity I will not miss it, But be careful Adam not to bring HIV for us .

It is a kid

Sincerely

Abdullah

Re: Working in South Africa

posted at 26/4/2009 7:50 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 78
First: 10/3/2009
Last: 16/10/2012

Neptune - thanks very much for the summary. Do the GMC not accept that NZ medicine is practiced in English??

Re: Working in South Africa

posted at 27/4/2009 12:10 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 6
First: 30/3/2009
Last: 27/4/2009

Adam,

 

Lamentably I have had trouble in convincing the GMC that I have an adequate knowledge of English to even enter an application for the PLAB exam, even though I am a Brit who lived and worked and was educated in the UK for nearly 30 years ! The PLAB/IELTS saga has been truly ridiculous.

 

How is the move to South Africa going ? It's going to be an interesting few months following the recent election.

Neptune
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