What do you think?

Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK
True
Careers
Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK
Discuss training, careers, and education
I have just read a very interesting article on BMJ Careers this week about foreign doctors, particularly from EU countries, locuming in the UK. It illustrates a bit the lessons doctors from
0
Cat:BMJForum:Careers
Cat:BMJForum:CareersDiscussion:4bf577e5-b837-4f69-94db-54226d5839da

Forums » BMJ » Careers » Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

You must be logged in to contribute. Log in | Register
 
Forums  »  BMJ  »  Careers  »  Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

posted at 3/10/2009 1:28 PM BST
Posts: 636
First: 13/1/2009
Last: 24/8/2012

I have just read a very interesting article on BMJ Careers this week about foreign doctors, particularly from EU countries, locuming in the UK. It illustrates a bit the lessons doctors from other EU countries can learn from German doctors, who have a long tradition of locuming in the UK.

I have been contacted recently by a UK locum company, which has been recently recruiting in Portugal. This is happening for the first time, so we have no experience of Portuguese doctors locuming in UK hospitals and surgeries. I am currently doing my GP vocational training, so I don't contemplate doing this sort of thing now, but I don't discard it in the future, particularly because it is a way to experience a new healthcare system, while at the same time receiving better finantial incentives than at home.

Are EU doctors well regarded in the UK? I am surprised that the locum company operating here is recruiting chiefly to A&E departments of UK hospitals. Why is this happening? The UK is one of the few European countries with an Emergency Medicine specialty. Why does the UK need EU doctors to work in A&E?

Do EU locum doctors get to undergo any continuous professional development and training as well, while in the UK?

The issue of EU medical mobility is on the rise, but surprisingly not much has been published about it. This article might be a great start.

 

Tiago Villanueva

Should doctors seeking work in other EU countries undergo a compulsory language test?

posted at 15/12/2009 12:46 PM GMT on bmj.com
*Moderator*
Posts: 669
First: 13/3/2009
Last: 14/2/2013

Thanks for the post Tiago. It reminded me of this feature idea, which we discussed at week's BMJ weekly planning meeting:

"Should doctors seeking work in other EU countries undergo a compulsory language test?"

We decided not to go ahead and commission anything on it, on the basis that no UK employer should be recruiting frontline health care workers with poor standards of written and spoken English. The same goes for English workers wanting to work in other countries.

Perhaps we should have commissioned something?

 

Re: Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

posted at 16/12/2009 12:49 AM GMT on bmj.com
Posts: 636
First: 13/1/2009
Last: 24/8/2012

I think it would be worth to commission, because even though by law it is not compulsory, reality shows some interesting idiosyncrasies and inconsistencies...

Say, an Indian doctor who's been raised speaking English, and has a medical education comparable with that from a UK graduate, has to take PLAB and an English language test, when EU doctors like me not only don't have to take language and qualification and recognition examinations, but may inclusively have lower standards of training.

My opinion is that there should be a big re-think regarding current European work legislation policy, and with doctors, language tests should perhaps come hand in hand with European examinations in the style of USMLE's (USA exams to recognize medical standards in foreign graduates). In other words, first we need fairer and more objective ways to measure standards of training and competence, and  a language examination should probably be compulsory too. If one is proficient in English, a language test should not prove too difficult. I've taken the IELTS twice, and found it challenging but doable.

 

 

 

 

 

Tiago Villanueva

Re: Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

posted at 16/12/2009 12:47 PM GMT on bmj.com
Posts: 4
First: 16/12/2009
Last: 16/12/2009

My girlfriend is a Polish and in her fourth year at a UK medical school. It apparently is quite uncommon to have EU students studying medicine in the UK, especially ones from Central/Eastern Europe. 

Should she want to go back and practice in Poland she has told me she would have to take a Polish language test. This would be a requirement, despite Polish being her mother tongue. This may sound a bit strange, but in reality it makes very good sense. She has studied medicine in English and she would find it rather hard or impossible to translate into Polish many of the medical words on a day to day basis quite simply because she doesn't know them in Polish. 

Under EU legislation if you speak a official EU language that's good enough in any EU country. However that doesn't stop employers from employing EU citizens that do not have a high enough standard of the language(s) of that country to be able to do the job.  Therefore, I think that locum agencies are perhaps not being strict enough in their English language requirements before employing doctors from both inside the EU and outside. 

Do foreign doctors not have to be registered with the GMC to work as a doctor in the UK??? Is there not a set level of English language ability in amongst the standards of proficiency???

Should perhaps there be a medical profession specific English language test, like they appear to have in Poland. It would appear to make a lot of sense.  Aviation for example has a industry specific language requirement. 

It is also worth noting, that you can be working in the UK illegally and be a EU citizen.

Regards. 

null

Re: Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

posted at 17/12/2009 2:39 PM GMT on bmj.com
Posts: 187
First: 11/3/2009
Last: 14/10/2012

Hi Notard,

Yes, nobody can work in the NHS (even if they do only locums) unless they have been registered to the GMC.

AND, you cannot register to the GMC unless you have passed the IELTS exam with a score of 7 or 7.5 (if I remember well). However, I do know that IELTS have nothing to do with medical terminology but at least the candidate is able to communicate with patients.

panos

Re: Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

posted at 17/12/2009 3:49 PM GMT on bmj.com
Posts: 13
First: 21/5/2009
Last: 6/6/2013

 Tiago, short of saying it is racially discriminatory to insist on PLAB and other hurdles an Indian physician has to face in order to work in UK, has initiated a long pending discussion. The EU safeguards to protect jobs to EU member country citizens is the reason for the peculiar regulations. As Tiago says, a completely stranger to English language with probably lesser standards of medical education scores over a well qualified Indian physician well versed in English language and from relatively better medical schools. If UK is forced by EU, it is the UK citizens who have to content with whatever EU offers. Well that is life and it goes on despite whatever one does.

Re: Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

posted at 21/12/2009 12:12 AM GMT on bmj.com
Posts: 62
First: 8/10/2009
Last: 16/4/2010

it is good chance to speak something a bout our dreams in developing countries to get a chance for continues our medical course in UK , and develop our practice but I still wonder if there is intention to gave this chance for us as other EU doctors and if this chance is for learning or for working in some place where it is need for health care workers?!

Re: Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

posted at 23/1/2010 9:51 AM GMT on bmj.com
*Moderator*
Posts: 669
First: 13/3/2009
Last: 14/2/2013

 I see the GMC in the UK has now issued a consultation on the regulation of doctors' education and training following concerns that medical qualifications from within the EU must be recognised, even if they are not up to British standards.

GMC chief executive Niall Dickson said in an interview this week that we need to be able to test the clinical and language skills of all overseas doctors. Currently this does not apply to doctors from other EU countries.

 

 

 

Re: Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

posted at 25/6/2012 10:12 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 2
First: 25/6/2012
Last: 25/6/2012
In Response to Re: Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK:
AND, you cannot register to the GMC unless you have passed the IELTS exam with a score of 7 or 7.5 (if I remember well). However, I do know that IELTS have nothing to do with medical terminology but at least the candidate is able to communicate with patients. panos
Posted by panos


I guess this must have changed ?  My significant other is Dutch, and GMC registered and did not have to do any kind of English test  - I guess they accepted that his English was probably better than a lot of English people during the registration interview????

Re: Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK

posted at 26/6/2012 12:48 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 607
First: 8/6/2011
Last: 17/6/2013
 In our days  the good knowledge of the English language is a ''must" for every body who is a scientist.  All the medical news apears first in English. Most of the best medical books are writen first in English.  When i have to buy a book i have two choices ;  1) To buy dirrect the book written in english . Or 2)  to buy the translation  witch is 4-5 times more expensive and i will find  it 1-2 years later than the original one.  Even if you are not working in the uk , it is difficult to keep in touch with the world medical community if you don't know English. Unfortunatelly  in my school the second language was French ( wich is completely useless to me )  .  I think English should be the second official language for all the states in the eu. 
    Now about the straingers  who want to work in uk . I read somewhere that there is a preparation time for the foreign Gps . they work for an interval of six months under surveillance and after they can work allone.  I think this is something very good because in this way you have all the time to adapt. The bad tink is that you have to pass some exames first , before you have the right to start the 6 months of preparation. And the salary for this interval is too low .  And the exam is two parts with about 45 days interval betwen them , so you must go to the uk twice before you start. 
  

Forums » BMJ » Careers » Questions regarding EU doctors locuming in the UK