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ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
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ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
Discuss training, careers, and education
Dear forum members, I am applying to university to study a degree in medicine in 2012 and because I have a BA and MA I am not eligble to apply for a student loan to cover my tuition fees. 
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Forums  »  BMJ  »  Careers  »  ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 30/4/2011 8:58 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 18
First: 18/4/2011
Last: 19/5/2011
I am organising a group of graduates to have a presence at the Save the NHS Demo on May 17th.

Details: Tuesday 17 May 5.30pm, University College Hospital, Gower St, WC1
6.00pm march to Department of Health, Whitehall

More info at http://www.keepournhspublic.com

I am coordinating our efforts via our open Facebook Group which is
Save Graduate Entry Medicine at
https://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_162471393813902&ap=1

We must not sit on our arses and let policy be changed without making our opinions heard!

Please join the Facebook group and email me at reb.mcknight@gmail.com if you want to join this peaceful protest. We have more power in numbers.

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 30/4/2011 4:14 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1
First: 30/4/2011
Last: 30/4/2011

I've emailed the following to the BMA:

1)    Given the increase in fees, would the lack of tuition fee support affect your decision to study medicine?

Such an increase would invariably affect my decision. To self-fund the first year of tuition fees at £3145 would have been achievable; however, an increase to £9000 means it is impossible for a recent graduate to genuinely self-fund without financial assistance from another source. For those of us who do not afford the luxury of parents who are in a position to offer such support, this firmly bars us from this career path.

2)    How does this make you feel?


It of course makes me feel angry on a personal level. I have been working towards an application to GEM courses for some time, and to suddenly have such a phenomenal barrier erected is crushing. This feeling is soured even further in how this barrier is in no way reflective on my suitability for medicine – it has arisen from unnecessary decisions from government. This issue is entirely separate from the national, political pro- vs anti-cuts discourse: it is an issue of ideological priorities. The vast amounts of money that will be spent on Mr Lansley’s NHS reforms would more than cover the price of educating graduate-entry doctors; paradoxically, the driving ideology behind the reforms is in part to put more doctors on the front lines. Indeed, if one thinks purely in terms of efficiency, graduate entry doctors train in four years, opposed to five and additionally start contributing to the NHS after their first year, which makes them a more economically attractive option.

            On a deeper level, this lack of funding makes me worry for the future of the NHS. In 2009, over 20% of people in medical training were over 21. It is highly likely that most of these people were graduates on Graduate Programmes (further supported by the correlation between this figure and the number of places on such programmes). It is deeply concerning that such a significant proportion of the medical workforce could be from such a non-representative cross section of society, especially in an institution which should be driven by ability and merit, regardless of ones financial situation.   


3)    What will you do if support is not provided to cover your fees?

 

I shall undertake postgraduate study in the hope that upon completion there shall be a government in power who both upholds their manifestos and facilitates meritocracy.

 
4)    What do you believe the government should do about this?

 

I think these are particularly damaging cuts to the driving force of the NHS. I believe the government should realise that is not merely sufficient to pledge to ‘ring-fence the NHS budget’ but it is also necessary to practically implement sustainable quality on the ground through educating a representative workforce. The government should realise that the NHS is not a microcosm in which to simulate a social experiment. A strong government is characterised by its ability to admit mistake, and the coalition needs to admit this one swiftly and divert funds to ensure that ability is the only criteria in become a doctor.   

 

Also if anyone is part of the Brent constituency, I'm thinking of organising a visit to our MP Sarah Teather (Minister of State for Education) who holds a weekly surgery, seeing as thought she has ignored my emails!

 

Finally, Rebs I would definitely be interested in attending on the 17th May

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 1/5/2011 1:31 AM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1
First: 1/5/2011
Last: 1/5/2011
Cut is necessary, but it should never be at the expense of long term progress. Make cuts in departments that need cut. I, as a person, would greatly suffer, and probably give up on serving the country that I love, in the capacity that I aspire to. For up to two years now, I have been volunteering my service for care homes and the NHS, and doing everything possible to make me a good doctor in the future (only if given the chance to study medicine).

If the NHS withdraws tuition fee support (grant or loan), for graduate applicants, my years of toil would be in vain. I might as well give up hope for life. I am from a family background where no one ever had the opportunity to attend a University – so, I was the first to attend, and graduate from a university. It was not easy – I had to work most of the time to be able to meet the cost of my education. However, I do not think it is possible to work as I did before, if studying medicine; it requires a year round attention to studies. The possible thought of not being able to study medicine, despite my hard work and determination to serve, makes me feel like I am inferior to more privileged applicants. I would not be surprised if policy makers do not heed my plea – after all, if you have never been poor, it might be harder to understand what the poor have to put up with.

If support is not provided to cover my fees, I am going to be devastated, but I would do whatever is necessary to realise my dream of becoming a doctor. I might even live the country, and never come back; or take a blind gamble at it working and studying at the same time again, and accept whatever the outcome.

The government should consider the experience and determination that graduates like me have to offer, and what the country stands to lose if we give up hope and trust. Yesterday, the 29th of April, 2011, I witnessed a global marriage ceremony, between Prince William and Kate Middleton (now the duke and duchess of Cambridge respectively), something struck a chord with me: That, this country is a great country, and we must not compromise our future by saving penny to lose a pound, because the world look up to us; and also, a commoner, given the chance to marry a prince, is only heard of in fairy tales – if this can happen, why am I being priced out of studying medicine?

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 8/5/2011 4:50 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 1
First: 8/5/2011
Last: 8/5/2011
NOTE: Students normally domiciled in Scotland or Northern Ireland are NOT eligible for any NHS support.  Therefore if you are studying as a graduate (on either the four- or five-year programme) you will receive no fee support for any year of the course.  You will instead be offered the means-tested maintenance loan for all four (or five) years of your course.  You are strongly advised to investigate the support available to you as soon as possible and consider how you will fund your tuition fees.

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 10/5/2011 6:12 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 18
First: 18/4/2011
Last: 19/5/2011
In Response to Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!:
I've emailed the following to the BMA: 1)    Given the increase in fees, would the lack of tuition fee support affect your decision to study medicine? Such an increase would invariably affect my decision. To self-fund the first year of tuition fees at £3145 would have been achievable; however, an increase to £9000 means it is impossible for a recent graduate to genuinely self-fund without financial assistance from another source. For those of us who do not afford the luxury of parents who are in a position to offer such support, this firmly bars us from this career path. 2)    How does this make you feel? It of course makes me feel angry on a personal level. I have been working towards an application to GEM courses for some time, and to suddenly have such a phenomenal barrier erected is crushing. This feeling is soured even further in how this barrier is in no way reflective on my suitability for medicine – it has arisen from unnecessary decisions from government. This issue is entirely separate from the national, political pro- vs anti-cuts discourse: it is an issue of ideological priorities. The vast amounts of money that will be spent on Mr Lansley’s NHS reforms would more than cover the price of educating graduate-entry doctors; paradoxically, the driving ideology behind the reforms is in part to put more doctors on the front lines. Indeed, if one thinks purely in terms of efficiency, graduate entry doctors train in four years, opposed to five and additionally start contributing to the NHS after their first year, which makes them a more economically attractive option.             On a deeper level, this lack of funding makes me worry for the future of the NHS. In 2009, over 20% of people in medical training were over 21. It is highly likely that most of these people were graduates on Graduate Programmes (further supported by the correlation between this figure and the number of places on such programmes). It is deeply concerning that such a significant proportion of the medical workforce could be from such a non-representative cross section of society, especially in an institution which should be driven by ability and merit, regardless of ones financial situation.    3)    What will you do if support is not provided to cover your fees?   I shall undertake postgraduate study in the hope that upon completion there shall be a government in power who both upholds their manifestos and facilitates meritocracy.   4)    What do you believe the government should do about this?   I think these are particularly damaging cuts to the driving force of the NHS. I believe the government should realise that is not merely sufficient to pledge to ‘ring-fence the NHS budget’ but it is also necessary to practically implement sustainable quality on the ground through educating a representative workforce. The government should realise that the NHS is not a microcosm in which to simulate a social experiment. A strong government is characterised by its ability to admit mistake, and the coalition needs to admit this one swiftly and divert funds to ensure that ability is the only criteria in become a doctor.       Also if anyone is part of the Brent constituency, I'm thinking of organising a visit to our MP Sarah Teather (Minister of State for Education) who holds a weekly surgery, seeing as thought she has ignored my emails!   Finally, Rebs I would definitely be interested in attending on the 17th May
Posted by olivermccallion


Hi Oliver, can you email me and I will send you info of where we are meeting for the protest next Tues? My email is reb.mcknight@gmail.com. Anyone else is welcome, just drop me an email or turn up!

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 10/5/2011 6:14 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 18
First: 18/4/2011
Last: 19/5/2011
I have created an e-petition against the potential removal of the NHS fees bursary for GEM and for a student loan to be made available for year 1. 

Please sign it here:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/save-graduate-entry-medicine

Thanks!

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 11/5/2011 8:37 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 18
First: 18/4/2011
Last: 19/5/2011
Hi Chris,

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but BMA announced on Twitter today that David Willetts had announced that graduates will NOT have access to a tuitiuon fee loan for year 1 of the GEM course, regardless of the fact that it has just increased by 166%.

Dear Rebecca,

We still don't know about the NHS bursary, but MP Andrew Smith just emailed me this today:

Many thanks for your emailed letter of 30 April about the difficulties confronting prospective graduate medical students.

I very much share your concerns on this. I therefore last week initiated a debate in Parliament about funding for medical students in general, including of course the position of prospective graduate medical students. To read this, go to link:

www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2011-05-03b.251.0" target="_blank">http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2011-05-03b.251.0

If there are further points you would like me to take up with Ministers, or any other way I can help the campaign on this, please just let me know.

With best wishes
Andrew

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 12/5/2011 3:50 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 16
First: 5/11/2010
Last: 14/7/2011
Hi Rebs,

Further to your post above, the BMA tweet was removed within minutes of being posted as we have not been able to verify the comments made by Willetts. As soon as we have further information, we'll let you know.

Coral Summers
Online Communities Editor
The BMA

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 16/5/2011 1:50 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 18
First: 18/4/2011
Last: 19/5/2011
I will be speaking at the Save the NHS protest tomorrow in London to highlight the issues that Graduate Entry Medical students are facing and we will be promoting our e-petition.

I urge everyone who agrees that graduates should have access to study medicine to attend the protest and sign the e-petition.

The main march will assemble at 5.30pm, University College Hospital, Gower St, WC1 (Euston, Warren Street, Euston Square tube).

And then at 6pm march to
Department of Health, Whitehall. Health workers are being told to wear your uniforms.

For those who would prefer to meet up first, to receive a banner and meet other graduates applying to GEM, we are meeting at 4pm at the Northumberland Arms.
Address: 119 Tottenham Ct Rd, London W1T 5AW and then making our way to the march.

Main site for more info on the protest is www.keepournhspublic.com/" target="_blank">http://www.keepournhspublic.com/

Our event page for the march is here: https://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=165547230173370

Save Graduate Entry Medicine!

Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!

posted at 19/5/2011 4:55 PM BST on bmj.com
Posts: 18
First: 18/4/2011
Last: 19/5/2011
Please see here to watch a video of the Keep the NHS Public march and also where I make a short speech about the issues prospective graduate medical students are facing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tPnHUPJCtw

Don't forget to sign our e-petition at www.savegem.co.uk
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