ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
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ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
Discuss training, careers, and education
Dear forum members, I am applying to university to study a degree in medicine in 2012 and because I have a BA and MA I am not eligble to apply for a student loan to cover my tuition fees.
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Forums » BMJ » Careers » ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
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ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
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Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
posted at 6/6/2011 2:27 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1
First: 6/6/2011 Last: 6/6/2011 |
I'm a graduate just finishing first year at Peninsula Medical School, a five year course. As well as study I'm currently working 2 jobs to try and raise fees because I don't get a fee loan, as well as organising another to add to these to do over the summer. This leaves me isolated as I cannot socialise with peers on my course because I'm either working, studying or too tired, I'm tired all the time from running around trying to fit everything in and pretty run down due to the stress of it all. It's very likely I'll get to fourth year and be kicked off because I can't pay fees. My parents have nothing to give me, to the extent that sometimes I have to lend them money to get them out of hot water. Mum is unemployed long term sick with no benefits and Dad is a builder. I'm about as low-income-family as they get. Indeed, for my first degree, I was given a bursary for being one of the 100 poorest students at the university. But I made it there, I struggled through, I proved myself. And that's 'only' paying the current £3,750 a year (plus inflation). I already have debts of £26,000 and I have another 4 years to go. It will be around £50-60,000 by the time I'm done. I am capable, willing and desperate to stay doing a course I love and am good at. I'm making the necessary sacrifices of food, company and sleep. Why doesn't my Government care as much as I do, when apparently they are crying out for Doctors? My first degree makes me more capable, more dedicated and more knowledgeable. It shouldn't be used a punishment against me. If I could get a fee loan I would be safe and secure in the knowledge I can afford to finish the degree. I honestly don't know if I can make it if I don't get the help. It makes me angry that we don't the funding, given the HYMS student's report that delved into matters and revealed the loophole that means we qualify for the loan. Especially considering this report was verified as correct by an independent source hired by the Business, Innovation and Skills department of the Government. The reply we got was that the Student Loans Company choose not to use the HEFCE and QAA recommendations that medicine is a higher level course than other degrees in this case, despite being happy to use them to classify other courses. This is petty and finagling and should not be allowed. It is in no way fair or just and has a profound impact on people's lives. I have written to my local MP and all they did was manage to get the Student Loans Company to recalculate me and give me a maintenance grant. Their excuse for trained staff had originally given me nothing at all, and no amount of pleading from me would make them recalculate me as I had already been calculated once, albeit wrongly. A supervisor at the SLC then told me if I wanted funding I needed to stay at the university I got my degree from and do another 2 years which would apparently top up my BSc to a BMBS. This was a trained member of staff, assuring me that this was possible. Not only trained, but at managerial level. Surprisingly, they wouldn't listen when I said this course did not exist. It's impossible to trust anything they say. It's a joke they hold so much power over us. Whether you do or don't get the support depends entirely on if you are lucky enough to get a calculator that knows the actual rules which do give us funding and not just the out of date crib sheet that doesn't give us the money. If you don't you won't be recalculated, you are stuck with their decision. After all, I'm just a student, what do I know? As for the fee loan debacle, my MP Ben Bradshaw said there was nothing he could do.
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Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
posted at 29/6/2011 9:27 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 3
First: 10/2/2011 Last: 29/6/2011 |
hi guys. I know this thread has been quiet for a while but just to put it out there the government's whitepaper on higher education has been released and for the 2012 entry it looks like things are going to be the same as they are. There are no unruely changes so for now i guess we should all be happy. http://web2.bma.org.uk/pressrel.nsf/wlu/SGOY-8J9M3B?OpenDocument&vw=wfmms |
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Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
posted at 31/5/2012 9:53 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1012
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 15/6/2013 |
You do not have to pay any fees upfron whatsoever if you are entering higher education. You only pay back anything at all when you have earned something like £21000 (or it could be more in fact). It is quite wriong to give the impression that students must fork out money upfront. I listened to Martyn Lews (The TV & Radio financial expert) explain this on five live just a few weeks ago. He said that students had got it all wrong. Even if you do begin to contribute at around the £21000 income mark it is still a very lown sum to pay. If you study medicine you will easily be able to enjoy a very good income and lifestyle as you progress through your career. What I do not understand is why more students to not study part time for degrees (I know currently that is not an option for Doctors or Dentists) but is certainly possible for most other subjects. I studied for my Law Degree entirely at my own expense, I completed my Bar studies and exams entirely at my own expense and have never regretted it. I get fed up with students whinging. For some examples here students have already been supported through 2 Degree courses and now want to be financed to strudy medicine. The country cannot support everyone to undertake 3 degrees. I would like to see a situation where a prospective student is expected to get a job and pay income tax etc for a three year period before being elligible for any sort of grant. Study for its own sake is in iteself rewarding - but someone has to pay the bills. |
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Re: ATTENTION! Graduate's are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
posted at 31/5/2012 10:00 AM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1012
First: 15/7/2011 Last: 15/6/2013 |
In Response to Re: ATTENTION! Graduate's are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!: The changes completely price me out of medicine. I did a 1 year bachelors degree outside of the UK and now I am banned from all funding and have to pay 9k fees up front with a family income of 14k. Medicine is a masters degree but they are using the equal or lesser rule to deny me all funding because they refuse to recognise medicine as a masters degree even though every university and the QAA say it is one.. Posted by Fred21 You do not have to pay a single penny upfront. See consumer website run by Martin Lewis 'MoneySavingexpert.com |
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Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
posted at 31/5/2012 12:21 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1
First: 31/5/2012 Last: 31/5/2012 |
Most of the information here is out of date. If you are applying to a 5 year course as a graduate, yes you can't get tuition fee loans. But you can for graduate entry medicine. Currently for the 4 year courses you have to pay £3.5k up front for the first year and a tuition fee loan will cover the rest. For years 2-4 the NHS will pay £3.5k towards and the tuition fee loan again covers the rest. You are also eligible for maintence loans, NHS bursary and other bursaries if you have children. It is very much doable. |
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Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
posted at 9/6/2012 6:56 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1
First: 9/6/2012 Last: 9/6/2012 |
I am hoping to apply for graduate entry medicine in 2013 after the completion of my current honours degree in midwifery. Similar to many posters, I lacked the dedication, motivation and self-confidence as a teenager to apply to medicine. Now as an adult feel compelled to follow my lifelong ambition of becoming a doctor, as I have gained over the previous few years the skills, both personally and academically, to make a career in medicine a viable option. Unfortuanatly, As a thirty year old mother of two I would be unable to pursue my dream under the current funding structure. I feel narrowing the scope of applicants in this way will have detrimental effects on the NHS as a whole. Mature graduates have a massive range of skills and experience to bring to medicine. It saddens me that only those with the financial means will be able to access this career path. |
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Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
posted at 28/6/2012 3:19 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1
First: 28/6/2012 Last: 28/6/2012 |
I'm hoping to do GEM 2014 entry, currently sitting alevel biologhy and chemistry. I'm 28 and like most others who have posted here I final 'know' what I want to do. Unfortunatly legislation at the moment prohibits me for getting NHS funding towards the cost of fees as I live in Northern Ireland (it only applies to students from England and Wales). So I would have to play the £9000 per term. Which I cannot! I think it so unfair to limit/ denie acces to a second degree (regardless of subject but esp one that you require a dregree to apply for), but I also feel almost its decrimination to allow students from different parts of the UK different funding options just because of where they live. If I lived in Scoland the max amount a second degree (any subject) would be £1800. It's heart breaking to think I might never be able to pursue this due to the ridiculous fees I'd have to pay up front. I live in hope that within the next two years there may be some reform of the SLC to provide a tuition fee loan to those that wish to do a second undergrad degree - maybe with a higher intrest rate or something to compensate it? I think education should be free, but it we must pay for it then allow us to do so in a fair maner! |
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Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
posted at 16/7/2012 10:06 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1
First: 16/7/2012 Last: 16/7/2012 |
Hi  I am a 23 year old Biomedical science Graduate with a place to study medicine in the UK this October (2012). I don’t come from a particularly affluent family and being the oldest of 5 children, I would like to avoid burdening my parents with £9,000 a year tuition fees seeing as they have 4 other children who are heavily dependent on them, especially after the withdrawal of EMA (thanks David Cameron). Not being able to get a tuition fee loan is 100% affecting me and it's really concerning how nobody (MP's, student union advisors, university finance people or even the infamous Student Finance) has a clue as to what options are available to people in this situation. I totally agree with some of the previous posts, in that it looks as if, if you are not ridiculously rich, you are basically priced out of doing a degree like medicine as a graduate. No matter how you much you try to sugar coat this. It is elitist and highly unfair! Additionally, it's not like people do medicine to become self made billionaires. I for one am doing this degree because it is a lifelong passion as well as an opportunity to give back to society in a way that uses science, empathy, healthcare, and hard work. I think it is unfair and unrealistic to expect anyone to pay £9,000 a year for a 4 year full time course. Even if you could work enough throughout the year to pay it off, is it feasible to do the best you can and get the best grades you can for a degree you're paying so much for? Another thing that bothers me is that, if you are going to refuse to give a tuition fee loan (a loan that you will get back with interest!!!) Then why are there no alternative options? Where do they expect people to get this kind of money from? Who has £40,000 sitting in a bank?  NatWest and Barclay’s no longer offer the professional development loan, and even if they did! What bank is going to loan you £36,000 and agree for you to pay it back in 5 years? When I went to Barclays to enquire about possibly taking out a loan for tuition fee it was like asking Father Christmas for a Ferrari for Christmas?!!? Completely unrealistic! Personally the introduction of this 300% increase in tuition fee is really concerning. I do not think this government has thought this through properly, and the consequences of these huge decisions are demoralising and discouraging the wrong groups of people in this society. In terms of widening participation they score a big fat Zero! We are officially going back 100 years to when only the rich are able to become Doctors and it is such a shame.  I wrote to my MP about this, and she was totally unaware of the situation. She wrote to student finance and they told her the same thing and quoted a regulation from the ELQ from 2011. I am hoping that someone within cabinet sees how much of a big deal this is and suggests that the whole student finance and support situation be revisited. If the government are going to stick with this regulation that having an honours degree means you are only entitled to maintenance loan when doing medicine, dentistry or vetenary science as a graduate, then they should at least have an alternative option for this group of people. At least point us in the right direction as to where we can get assistance. I think that is the least they can do. |
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Re: ATTENTION! Graduates are being priced out of studying medicine! Your View/Help Needed!!
posted at 6/9/2012 1:48 PM BST
on bmj.com
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Posts: 1
First: 6/9/2012 Last: 6/9/2012 |
I have just sat and read through all of the posts on here and am now even more confused about the funding issues than before. I have a place to study medicine as a graduate on the 5 year course starting this month, yet am still struggling to organise my funding. Luckily I have family members who have been saving as much as they can to help me through, which I know is going to be the best help I can find. I applied for a maintainance loan from the student loans company, but was told I wasnt entitled to one, and also when questioning the universities about paying fees, they said that they do have to be paid upfront. For these reasons I am very confused when comparing this information I have been given to what has been stated on this forum. Can anyone please give me some advice on clearing this up? thanks |
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